3 ms·

Hydrogen is the most abundant element in the universe, but it's very rare on earth so it has to be manufactured. So the oil companies totally would love you to

Hydrogen is the most abundant element in the universe, but it's very rare on earth so it has to be manufactured. So the oil companies totally would love you to switch from the oil they will sooner or later not be able to fracking get anymore to hydrogen which they can raise prices on until the day when nuclear fusion becomes something they could sell again as long as it remains expensive enough to be sellable. Hydrogen is dumb, at 300 miles / 450kms a fuel cell I notice there is no mention of the price which is laughably much more than gasoline is today. Then they say that mileage is further than "most" electric cars. True except for the Tesla which actually 85kwh edition has at least 450kms of range. And also Hydrogen cannot be regenerated from breaking which makes it less efficient than full electric. In the future it maybe possible to charge your car with solar or wind or fart energy, but not if your Petrol Company lobbied alternative fuel car runs on a Hydrogen Fuel Cell and has the acceleration of a brick on wheels at 0-100kms in 9.6 seconds. A hummer does that in around 10.5 seconds.

teraflop 12y ago
The article does mention price: "While EVs take hours to recharge, the fueling cost is a fraction of the roughly $45 a hydrogen fill-up will cost." That's more expensive than gasoline, but as of a few months ago the price difference would have only been about 30% compared to my relatively fuel-efficient Honda Fit. The gap is larger now thanks to the recently plummeting gas prices in the US, of course. > And also Hydrogen cannot be regenerated from breaking which makes it less efficient than full electric. As the article doesn't mention but Wikipedia does, the Mirai also has a battery and supports regenerative braking. It's basically a hybrid car that uses a fuel cell instead of a gasoline engine.
- MrGuyUser 12y ago
  Ok I was wrong about the regenerative breaking. It makes sense since it would be easy to implement. Most of the drive system of a Hydrogen Car will be electric already. It will use batteries as well. The world will once again be at the whim of the hydrogen producers which would likely be Shell, BP or Exxon. Electric cars are only going to get better and generating your own power is only going to get easier. Oil companies don't like the loss of control. Hybrid's pull some tricks to save fuel, but I might argue they have much more points of failure and are harder to fix when they do fail. I predict that on Dec 15th they will sell one or two of these cars to Toyota Executives whom receive a bonus just a little more than what the car would cost if they did.
- mikeash 12y ago
  Keep in mind that the $45 fill-up cost is for about 300 miles of driving, versus 4-500 miles for a typical gasoline car. At current prices, my Prius v will go about 500 miles on a $30 fill-up, which would cost $75 for hydrogen, assuming $45 gives you 300 miles. Even if gas goes back to $4/gallon, it's still $45 for ~500 miles. A full charge on a Model S would cost me something like $8, by comparison. Less if I went for time-of-use metering and charged it at night.
secabeen 12y ago
They don't mention the price because current systems cannot accurately measure the amount of H2 being dispensed into the car. Every Fuel Cell car comes with free fuel coordinated by the manufacturer.
- r00fus 12y ago
  But you can measure the cells or the energy used to fuel the car each time, no? The fact that the manufacturers are subsidizing it makes me very suspicious of why they're providing it.
- upofadown 12y ago
  Speaking as someone who once worked on a H2 dispenser with a reasonably accurate meter, this is by the choice of the test program. Even without a meter you can figure out roughly how much H2 ends up in the car just by checking the tank pressure at the start and end of the fill. If it is a test program they are going to know the size of the tank (assuming that they don't have a working data link for some reason).
mikeash 12y ago
Just a nitpick: hydrogen is extremely common on Earth, but it's uncommon to find it by itself, rather than bound into some larger molecule like water or hydrocarbons.

teraflop 12y ago

The article does mention price: "While EVs take hours to recharge, the fueling cost is a fraction of the roughly $45 a hydrogen fill-up will cost." That's more expensive than gasoline, but as of a few months ago the price difference would have only been about 30% compared to my relatively fuel-efficient Honda Fit. The gap is larger now thanks to the recently plummeting gas prices in the US, of course. > And also Hydrogen cannot be regenerated from breaking which makes it less efficient than full electric. As the article doesn't mention but Wikipedia does, the Mirai also has a battery and supports regenerative braking. It's basically a hybrid car that uses a fuel cell instead of a gasoline engine.

MrGuyUser 12y ago
Ok I was wrong about the regenerative breaking. It makes sense since it would be easy to implement. Most of the drive system of a Hydrogen Car will be electric already. It will use batteries as well. The world will once again be at the whim of the hydrogen producers which would likely be Shell, BP or Exxon. Electric cars are only going to get better and generating your own power is only going to get easier. Oil companies don't like the loss of control. Hybrid's pull some tricks to save fuel, but I might argue they have much more points of failure and are harder to fix when they do fail. I predict that on Dec 15th they will sell one or two of these cars to Toyota Executives whom receive a bonus just a little more than what the car would cost if they did.
mikeash 12y ago
Keep in mind that the $45 fill-up cost is for about 300 miles of driving, versus 4-500 miles for a typical gasoline car. At current prices, my Prius v will go about 500 miles on a $30 fill-up, which would cost $75 for hydrogen, assuming $45 gives you 300 miles. Even if gas goes back to $4/gallon, it's still $45 for ~500 miles. A full charge on a Model S would cost me something like $8, by comparison. Less if I went for time-of-use metering and charged it at night.

secabeen 12y ago

They don't mention the price because current systems cannot accurately measure the amount of H2 being dispensed into the car. Every Fuel Cell car comes with free fuel coordinated by the manufacturer.

r00fus 12y ago
But you can measure the cells or the energy used to fuel the car each time, no? The fact that the manufacturers are subsidizing it makes me very suspicious of why they're providing it.
upofadown 12y ago
Speaking as someone who once worked on a H2 dispenser with a reasonably accurate meter, this is by the choice of the test program. Even without a meter you can figure out roughly how much H2 ends up in the car just by checking the tank pressure at the start and end of the fill. If it is a test program they are going to know the size of the tank (assuming that they don't have a working data link for some reason).

mikeash 12y ago

Just a nitpick: hydrogen is extremely common on Earth, but it's uncommon to find it by itself, rather than bound into some larger molecule like water or hydrocarbons.