31 ms·

Something crafted with a purpose in mind is artificial, something created as a result of random natural processes seems fundamentally different.

higherpurpose 12y ago
What if we let AI "evolve" on its own within a simulation of life?
- jostmey 12y ago
  There are fundamental differences between a machine designed by the hand of intelligence and that of a biological system. In the case of biology, the design is completely random although it still has a design, as strange as that sounds.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
  - rqebmm 12y ago
    There's no "design", there's merely a stable result of random fluctuations in a constrained space. The constraints (i.e. water, oxygen/nitrogen atmosphere, other life forms, etc) are what's key.
- teraflop 12y ago
  Greg Egan brought up this idea in his novel Permutation City, only to have a change of heart some years later. To quote his FAQ[1]: > What I regret most is my uncritical treatment of the idea of allowing intelligent life to evolve in the Autoverse. Sure, this is a common science-fictional idea, but when I thought about it properly (some years after the book was published), I realised that anyone who actually did this would have to be utterly morally bankrupt. To get from micro-organisms to intelligent life this way would involve an immense amount of suffering, with billions of sentient creatures living, struggling and dying along the way. Yes, this happened to our own ancestors, but that doesn’t give us the right to inflict the same kind of suffering on anyone else. > This is potentially an important issue in the real world. It might not be long before people are seriously trying to “evolve” artificial intelligence in their computers. Now, it’s one thing to use genetic algorithms to come up with various specialised programs that perform simple tasks, but to “breed”, assess, and kill millions of sentient programs would be an abomination. If the first AI was created that way, it would have every right to despise its creators. His more recent story "Crystal Nights"[2] examines the same idea with more focus on the moral implications. [1]: http://gregegan.customer.netspace.net.au/PERMUTATION/FAQ/FAQ.html http://gregegan.customer.netspace.net.au/PERMUTATION/FAQ/FAQ... [2]: http://ttapress.com/553/crystal-nights-by-greg-egan/ http://ttapress.com/553/crystal-nights-by-greg-egan/
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
givan 12y ago
evolution is not random, it's purpose is to adapt to the environment changes and become better
- twelfthnight 12y ago
  Well, the process by which genes are passed with genetic mutations is random. If you looked backward in time it looks like animals developed fur to warm themselves. In fact, you're just not seeing all the animals who randomly didn't have fur that froze to extinction.
  - givan 12y ago
    random is just a word for too complex to compute/understand
    - lotsofmangos 12y ago
      No it isn't. Randomness, complexity, computability and understandability are related but distinct concepts. Some problems are simple and random, some others are complex and deterministic and you also even get some problems that are are simple to state, deterministic, provably uncomputable, yet still understandable, such as the Wang tiling problem.
      - givan 12y ago
        What problems are simple and random? can you give some examples to prove your argument?
        lotsofmangos 12y ago
        Emit a single photon at a piece of glass angled at 45 degrees with two detectors, one behind the glass, the other at 90 degrees to the emitter. Which detector is the photon going to trigger?
        12y ago

higherpurpose 12y ago

What if we let AI "evolve" on its own within a simulation of life?

jostmey 12y ago
There are fundamental differences between a machine designed by the hand of intelligence and that of a biological system. In the case of biology, the design is completely random although it still has a design, as strange as that sounds.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- rqebmm 12y ago
  There's no "design", there's merely a stable result of random fluctuations in a constrained space. The constraints (i.e. water, oxygen/nitrogen atmosphere, other life forms, etc) are what's key.
teraflop 12y ago
Greg Egan brought up this idea in his novel Permutation City, only to have a change of heart some years later. To quote his FAQ[1]: > What I regret most is my uncritical treatment of the idea of allowing intelligent life to evolve in the Autoverse. Sure, this is a common science-fictional idea, but when I thought about it properly (some years after the book was published), I realised that anyone who actually did this would have to be utterly morally bankrupt. To get from micro-organisms to intelligent life this way would involve an immense amount of suffering, with billions of sentient creatures living, struggling and dying along the way. Yes, this happened to our own ancestors, but that doesn’t give us the right to inflict the same kind of suffering on anyone else. > This is potentially an important issue in the real world. It might not be long before people are seriously trying to “evolve” artificial intelligence in their computers. Now, it’s one thing to use genetic algorithms to come up with various specialised programs that perform simple tasks, but to “breed”, assess, and kill millions of sentient programs would be an abomination. If the first AI was created that way, it would have every right to despise its creators. His more recent story "Crystal Nights"[2] examines the same idea with more focus on the moral implications. [1]: http://gregegan.customer.netspace.net.au/PERMUTATION/FAQ/FAQ.html http://gregegan.customer.netspace.net.au/PERMUTATION/FAQ/FAQ... [2]: http://ttapress.com/553/crystal-nights-by-greg-egan/ http://ttapress.com/553/crystal-nights-by-greg-egan/
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]

givan 12y ago

evolution is not random, it's purpose is to adapt to the environment changes and become better

twelfthnight 12y ago
Well, the process by which genes are passed with genetic mutations is random. If you looked backward in time it looks like animals developed fur to warm themselves. In fact, you're just not seeing all the animals who randomly didn't have fur that froze to extinction.
- givan 12y ago
  random is just a word for too complex to compute/understand
  - lotsofmangos 12y ago
    No it isn't. Randomness, complexity, computability and understandability are related but distinct concepts. Some problems are simple and random, some others are complex and deterministic and you also even get some problems that are are simple to state, deterministic, provably uncomputable, yet still understandable, such as the Wang tiling problem.
    - givan 12y ago
      What problems are simple and random? can you give some examples to prove your argument?
      - lotsofmangos 12y ago
        Emit a single photon at a piece of glass angled at 45 degrees with two detectors, one behind the glass, the other at 90 degrees to the emitter. Which detector is the photon going to trigger?
        12y ago