4 ms·

Except generics aren't guaranteed to be equivalent. Indian pharma companies have been incredibly corrupt, outright lying about their products: http://fortune.c

Except generics aren't guaranteed to be equivalent. Indian pharma companies have been incredibly corrupt, outright lying about their products: http://fortune.com/2013/05/15/dirty-medicine/ http://fortune.com/2013/05/15/dirty-medicine/ I'd be very hesitant about buying medicine from such companies. But I agree that if the regulators could assure quality, then yes, pointing out equivalence would help a lot of people.

mikeash 12y ago
Are they any less guaranteed than the name brands?
- MichaelGG 12y ago
  The Indian companies had s very hard time getting their EU and American employees to go along with this kind of stuff. From my personal experience in Central America and what I've heard from first person accounts of India and other places in the world, outright corruption and total disregard for safety or QA seems less likely to affect North/Western countries. I'm trying to phrase that politely, but yes, there seems to be much reason to trust the main name brands over those generic companies.
  - mikeash 12y ago
    Are the name brands never manufactured in India and similar places?
    - MichaelGG 12y ago
      It seems like they use less Indian plants, and more EU plants, based on some quick searches. But I didn't find a comprehensive list. But additionally, it's part of corporate culture. In fact, the article I linked to says that Ranbuxy had a manufacturing plant in the US, and that plant ended up making pills containing glass fragments. So it seems more of who is "in charge". That said, I'd trust stuff manufactured by a EU company in a EU location more than manufactured in a less controlled location. I have noticed that local companies of a global corp will misbehave in incredible ways. And some US companies might not realise just how bad it can get on-site, in country. They are big on deferring things to their local subsidiaries, figuring they know best. For instance, MS has had huge problems with local companies in Latin America. From misrepresenting the success and adoption, to pure outright theft. It's unlikely you'd see the same thing happening on the same scale at MS's North Carolina or Toronto office, for instance -- just because there's a higher chance of someone speaking up. I'm not saying the US or EU are infallible or better, just that people might not be acutely aware of how "flexible" other countries can be at breaking laws. (And not that I blame "the locals" entirely, the risk/reward is so excellent, in addition to a generally poor background situation, that I'm not sure I'd necessarily do better put in the same position. (Same for crime: If I could pull a gun on someone with low risk of being caught, and make off with several months' salary, it'd be a large temptation if I didn't have steady housing/food/etc.)) Of course, this might be selection bias plus some personal biases I have just poking through.
pnathan 12y ago
Incredible. Is there a data source for companies & drugs that are known bad?
- refurb 12y ago
  The FDA does a pretty good job of forcing the offending companies to recall the bad product. They even go as far as banning any imports from said companies until they've proven that they have cleaned up their act.
  - pnathan 12y ago
    Well... um. Read the Fortune article, and that pretty much invalidates your statement. This particular company was in the middle of an investigation and was still shipping product. Similar situations have occurred in the past (I can't recall names anymore though). I would love to pull up an app, tap a few buttons, and ask the pharmacist to change the meds to brand name when they are selling me products produced by $sketchy_fraudulent_company.
    - refurb 12y ago
      I'm not saying the FDA does a good job of catching this activity early. The only way they find out is either through inspections (they are horribly understaffed) or through product complaints. When do they find out they drop the hammer. Most (all?) Ranbaxy plants are banned from importing product into the US and many products were recalled.
      - MichaelGG 12y ago
        Really? Articles from early 2014 say 4 plants are banned, while Ranbaxy's website boasts 21 manufacturing locations. Sun Pharma, which is buying (or bought?) Ranbaxy, recently got a plant ban for the same types of issues. (They delete test info if it isn't in their favour, and have terrible hygiene at the labs.) It's obviously endemic. And Sun quickly noted that the ban only affects 1% of their revenue. It seems unbelievable that this deep level of corruption is exposed, and the FDA does limited bans and recalls. Instead of, say, completely banning the company and high-level individuals involved, until a complete end-to-end audit is completed. It's simply counterfactual to think these limited bans are accomplishing anything, or that a company is going to utterly and completely change the way they conduct themselves from individual techs all the way up to the board. The Fortune article says none of the FDA inspectors would ever personally buy drugs from Ranbaxy, ban or not.

mikeash 12y ago

Are they any less guaranteed than the name brands?

MichaelGG 12y ago
The Indian companies had s very hard time getting their EU and American employees to go along with this kind of stuff. From my personal experience in Central America and what I've heard from first person accounts of India and other places in the world, outright corruption and total disregard for safety or QA seems less likely to affect North/Western countries. I'm trying to phrase that politely, but yes, there seems to be much reason to trust the main name brands over those generic companies.
- mikeash 12y ago
  Are the name brands never manufactured in India and similar places?
  - MichaelGG 12y ago
    It seems like they use less Indian plants, and more EU plants, based on some quick searches. But I didn't find a comprehensive list. But additionally, it's part of corporate culture. In fact, the article I linked to says that Ranbuxy had a manufacturing plant in the US, and that plant ended up making pills containing glass fragments. So it seems more of who is "in charge". That said, I'd trust stuff manufactured by a EU company in a EU location more than manufactured in a less controlled location. I have noticed that local companies of a global corp will misbehave in incredible ways. And some US companies might not realise just how bad it can get on-site, in country. They are big on deferring things to their local subsidiaries, figuring they know best. For instance, MS has had huge problems with local companies in Latin America. From misrepresenting the success and adoption, to pure outright theft. It's unlikely you'd see the same thing happening on the same scale at MS's North Carolina or Toronto office, for instance -- just because there's a higher chance of someone speaking up. I'm not saying the US or EU are infallible or better, just that people might not be acutely aware of how "flexible" other countries can be at breaking laws. (And not that I blame "the locals" entirely, the risk/reward is so excellent, in addition to a generally poor background situation, that I'm not sure I'd necessarily do better put in the same position. (Same for crime: If I could pull a gun on someone with low risk of being caught, and make off with several months' salary, it'd be a large temptation if I didn't have steady housing/food/etc.)) Of course, this might be selection bias plus some personal biases I have just poking through.

pnathan 12y ago

Incredible. Is there a data source for companies & drugs that are known bad?

refurb 12y ago
The FDA does a pretty good job of forcing the offending companies to recall the bad product. They even go as far as banning any imports from said companies until they've proven that they have cleaned up their act.
- pnathan 12y ago
  Well... um. Read the Fortune article, and that pretty much invalidates your statement. This particular company was in the middle of an investigation and was still shipping product. Similar situations have occurred in the past (I can't recall names anymore though). I would love to pull up an app, tap a few buttons, and ask the pharmacist to change the meds to brand name when they are selling me products produced by $sketchy_fraudulent_company.
  - refurb 12y ago
    I'm not saying the FDA does a good job of catching this activity early. The only way they find out is either through inspections (they are horribly understaffed) or through product complaints. When do they find out they drop the hammer. Most (all?) Ranbaxy plants are banned from importing product into the US and many products were recalled.
    - MichaelGG 12y ago
      Really? Articles from early 2014 say 4 plants are banned, while Ranbaxy's website boasts 21 manufacturing locations. Sun Pharma, which is buying (or bought?) Ranbaxy, recently got a plant ban for the same types of issues. (They delete test info if it isn't in their favour, and have terrible hygiene at the labs.) It's obviously endemic. And Sun quickly noted that the ban only affects 1% of their revenue. It seems unbelievable that this deep level of corruption is exposed, and the FDA does limited bans and recalls. Instead of, say, completely banning the company and high-level individuals involved, until a complete end-to-end audit is completed. It's simply counterfactual to think these limited bans are accomplishing anything, or that a company is going to utterly and completely change the way they conduct themselves from individual techs all the way up to the board. The Fortune article says none of the FDA inspectors would ever personally buy drugs from Ranbaxy, ban or not.