6 ms·

Everyone talks about the great network-effect from going to a good school. As someone who went to one of these supposedly great "network-effect-ey" schools I sa

by hacknat 12y ago

Everyone talks about the great network-effect from going to a good school. As someone who went to one of these supposedly great "network-effect-ey" schools I say it's bullshit. As a thought experiment, think of your own college experience. Do you really keep in touch with that many people? Of the people you do keep in touch with, can any of them open opportunities for you that are at all relevant to your field? People who go to Harvard, Ivies, Stanford, Berkley, et al, have the same basic "College-Experience"(TM) as everyone else. No one wants to admit it, but it's not the network-effect that helps. It's the branding! Harvard, the Ivies, et al, have brand recognition, and brand recognition helps...a lot! If you're hiring someone, don't you think that the person with a brand that you recognize is going to at least get that person a phone-screen or an expedited interview? You're desperate to hire someone and they went to Stanford, so they must be good, right? Ivy league degrees are simply the best door-openers out of all the door openers you can get. Once you're in the door they're as useless as the other degrees are.

benesch 12y ago
Door-opening is the biggest network effect, no? You climb the corporate ladder or close the deal [largely] based on your merit, but it's the network that gets you the job interview or investor pitch. It's the friend who graduated two years ago at that consulting firm who puts in a good word for you after your interview; it's the final club grad council member who makes a few calls on your behalf; it's the other students in B school who are already successful venture capitalists and are actively looking for projects to fund. I'll agree the branding is powerful. But, to be blunt, I'm skeptical that your lack of connections means that the network effect theory is bullshit. I'd be curious to see the results of your thought experience on some other folks who went to "network-effect-ey" schools! I'm still mustering my way through higher education myself, but I feel like I've made some incredibly valuable connections.
spc476 12y ago
I'm thinking on my own collect experience, and yes, the past few jobs I've had came because of friends I met in college, and I attended a public state university (back in the early 90s). I got a job at IBM as a co-op during college. My third on-campus job was programming related due to a conversation I had with a masters student in Psychology (programming Myer-Briggs personality type tests plus some other more esoteric simulations); some other small programming jobs because of local companies posting on the bulletin board at college. Once I got out of college, a friend and fellow school-mate hired me for the web-hosting company he started (which transformed three times). My current job is due to a another school-mate.
r00fus 12y ago
> Ivy league degrees are simply the best door-openers out of all the door openers you can get. Once you're in the door they're as useless as the other degrees are. I present a counterpoint - I know someone who's a Stanford Law JD, and she's gotten quite a few doors opened (or opened wider) because of her degree. In fact, she wouldn't have made partner (smaller law firm) so fast without it. Also many places like specific alumni because the founders or CxOs went there. However, the skyrocketing cost of (private) higher education in general seems to reinforce your point - a 4-year degree simply isn't worth it for the Ivy-league if you factor in the price.
- matthewmcg 12y ago
  Professional degrees are a special case. Law firms, in particular, are strongly credential-oriented.
threeways 12y ago
> Ivy league degrees are simply the best door-openers out of all the door openers Knowing someone is.
modoc 12y ago
It depends on the person. I can't comment on Ivys, however I attended a very prestigious East coast prep school. At the time I was a terrible "networker" and I left there with zero long term friends and useful connections. A good friend of mine went to a similar prep school, but he's more a naturally social guy, and he's maintained leverage connections with probably 100 people who have gone on to positions of power and prestige. He has been able to call on those acquaintances very successfully in his career to open doors and get introductions that simply aren't available to most people. So just because I wasn't personally able to capitalize on the networking opportunity doesn't mean that the opportunity wasn't there.
- hnnewguy 12y ago
  >So just because I wasn't personally able to capitalize on the networking opportunity doesn't mean that the opportunity wasn't there. It sounds to me that you reinforce the OPs argument: social people will make connections regardless.
  - pm90 12y ago
    I don't see how you got there. Being social is important yes, but you can't just meet the diverse number of people that its possible to in university: future lawyers, engineers, doctors, artists, bureaucrats etc. all in the same campus. College is the best time to make connections, and an Ivy League College is even better.
    - hnnewguy 12y ago
      >I don't see how you got there. Well, I started with the fact that he said he isn't social and made few connections, while his sociable friend made many connections. From there, it wasn't hard to conclude that "college" had little to do with generating connections. >but you can't just meet the diverse number of people that its possible to in university Completely untrue. First of all, you know where you can find diversity? Almost anywhere. Join a club or a team sport and you're likely to encounter people of all shapes, colours, ages and occupations. Second, the University isn't as diverse as you proclaim. The average person you will meet in college in America or the Commonwealth will be globally wealthy, speak English and probably be a WASP, somewhere between ages 18 and 24. You surround yourself with like-minded people in your courses, many of whom will not graduate, and even fewer who will go on to careers related to their education. Don't get me wrong; I love the college experience, and am a firm believer in education. I've already spent more time there than is optimal for my career. >College is the best time to make connections And what do you base this argument on? I didn't have a clue who I was at 20.
GFK_of_xmaspast 12y ago
Maybe you didn't do it right.
bowlich 12y ago
I guess as a anecdotal counterpoint, I didn't go to the Ivy leagues but I did get my first job because a sales guy recognized my college and had a friend who happened to live next door to me in the dorms and whose computer I had helped fix at some point.

by hacknat 12y ago

benesch 12y ago

Door-opening is the biggest network effect, no? You climb the corporate ladder or close the deal [largely] based on your merit, but it's the network that gets you the job interview or investor pitch. It's the friend who graduated two years ago at that consulting firm who puts in a good word for you after your interview; it's the final club grad council member who makes a few calls on your behalf; it's the other students in B school who are already successful venture capitalists and are actively looking for projects to fund. I'll agree the branding is powerful. But, to be blunt, I'm skeptical that your lack of connections means that the network effect theory is bullshit. I'd be curious to see the results of your thought experience on some other folks who went to "network-effect-ey" schools! I'm still mustering my way through higher education myself, but I feel like I've made some incredibly valuable connections.

spc476 12y ago

I'm thinking on my own collect experience, and yes, the past few jobs I've had came because of friends I met in college, and I attended a public state university (back in the early 90s). I got a job at IBM as a co-op during college. My third on-campus job was programming related due to a conversation I had with a masters student in Psychology (programming Myer-Briggs personality type tests plus some other more esoteric simulations); some other small programming jobs because of local companies posting on the bulletin board at college. Once I got out of college, a friend and fellow school-mate hired me for the web-hosting company he started (which transformed three times). My current job is due to a another school-mate.

r00fus 12y ago

> Ivy league degrees are simply the best door-openers out of all the door openers you can get. Once you're in the door they're as useless as the other degrees are. I present a counterpoint - I know someone who's a Stanford Law JD, and she's gotten quite a few doors opened (or opened wider) because of her degree. In fact, she wouldn't have made partner (smaller law firm) so fast without it. Also many places like specific alumni because the founders or CxOs went there. However, the skyrocketing cost of (private) higher education in general seems to reinforce your point - a 4-year degree simply isn't worth it for the Ivy-league if you factor in the price.

matthewmcg 12y ago
Professional degrees are a special case. Law firms, in particular, are strongly credential-oriented.

threeways 12y ago

> Ivy league degrees are simply the best door-openers out of all the door openers Knowing someone is.

modoc 12y ago

It depends on the person. I can't comment on Ivys, however I attended a very prestigious East coast prep school. At the time I was a terrible "networker" and I left there with zero long term friends and useful connections. A good friend of mine went to a similar prep school, but he's more a naturally social guy, and he's maintained leverage connections with probably 100 people who have gone on to positions of power and prestige. He has been able to call on those acquaintances very successfully in his career to open doors and get introductions that simply aren't available to most people. So just because I wasn't personally able to capitalize on the networking opportunity doesn't mean that the opportunity wasn't there.

hnnewguy 12y ago
>So just because I wasn't personally able to capitalize on the networking opportunity doesn't mean that the opportunity wasn't there. It sounds to me that you reinforce the OPs argument: social people will make connections regardless.
- pm90 12y ago
  I don't see how you got there. Being social is important yes, but you can't just meet the diverse number of people that its possible to in university: future lawyers, engineers, doctors, artists, bureaucrats etc. all in the same campus. College is the best time to make connections, and an Ivy League College is even better.
  - hnnewguy 12y ago
    >I don't see how you got there. Well, I started with the fact that he said he isn't social and made few connections, while his sociable friend made many connections. From there, it wasn't hard to conclude that "college" had little to do with generating connections. >but you can't just meet the diverse number of people that its possible to in university Completely untrue. First of all, you know where you can find diversity? Almost anywhere. Join a club or a team sport and you're likely to encounter people of all shapes, colours, ages and occupations. Second, the University isn't as diverse as you proclaim. The average person you will meet in college in America or the Commonwealth will be globally wealthy, speak English and probably be a WASP, somewhere between ages 18 and 24. You surround yourself with like-minded people in your courses, many of whom will not graduate, and even fewer who will go on to careers related to their education. Don't get me wrong; I love the college experience, and am a firm believer in education. I've already spent more time there than is optimal for my career. >College is the best time to make connections And what do you base this argument on? I didn't have a clue who I was at 20.

GFK_of_xmaspast 12y ago

Maybe you didn't do it right.

bowlich 12y ago

I guess as a anecdotal counterpoint, I didn't go to the Ivy leagues but I did get my first job because a sales guy recognized my college and had a friend who happened to live next door to me in the dorms and whose computer I had helped fix at some point.