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Stereotypes of French waiters aside, service is just fine in Europe. (Speaking as a former resident with very fond memories.) Tipping is just a way for American

Stereotypes of French waiters aside, service is just fine in Europe. (Speaking as a former resident with very fond memories.) Tipping is just a way for American employers to rip off their most vulnerable workers. Tipping is a truly toxic practice, and it's a burden on customers as well. Why would anyone want to be assigned extra work to evaluate how unhappy they are in order to calculate how much extra they should pay?

Pyxl101 12y ago
> Tipping is just a way for American employers to rip off their most vulnerable workers. Could you please elaborate? I don't see how tipping can be involved in ripping off workers in the United States. Employers are always required to pay their workers minimum wage - the federal minimum wage in the worst case, and sometimes the state minimum wage when it applies and is higher. See: http://www.dol.gov/elaws/faq/esa/flsa/002.htm http://www.dol.gov/elaws/faq/esa/flsa/002.htm > If an employee's tips combined with the employer's direct wages[] do not equal the federal minimum hourly wage, the employer must make up the difference.
- jordanthoms 12y ago
  For jobs where tipping is expected, in most states the expected tips can be taken away from the minimum wage - so a server could be paid $2 per hour + tips.
- npizzolato 12y ago
  While that may be technically true, I imagine any waiter not able to pull in tips to exceed the minimum wage would soon find themselves out of a job, especially in at-will states. In practice tipping just transfers the cost from the employer to the consumer.
  - waterlesscloud 12y ago
    The cost is always going to be covered by the consumer.
    - click170 12y ago
      When the cost is included in the bill, the consumer has less choice. When its an implied "tip", its optional.
      - orangecat 12y ago
        In theory yes, but it's basically not optional when the overwhelming social consensus is that you're a horrible person if you don't tip, even for mediocre service. Maybe it started out as a way to reward excellent service, but now it just allows businesses to deceive customers by posting prices that are less than what you actually end up paying.
      - darmin 12y ago
        No contradiction. The customer has the choice of covering the tip with money or with social retribution. Either way, they're the ones paying.
- click170 12y ago
  Except that the legislators and employers take tips into account when lobbying for and setting the minimum wage. We see it as "that waiter was nice, leave a generous tip". Employers see it as "if they don't do a good enough job they won't make any tips, and the problem will naturally work itself out." This is patently unfair because it treats tips as implied expected income, and wages are set so low that you can't make a livable income without them. This is patently unfair.
tormeh 12y ago
It also contributes to sexual harassment. It's a bit evil, basically.
jedberg 12y ago
> Stereotypes of French waiters aside, Which I found to be quite wrong. I didn't have a single experience of bad service in my week in Paris.

Pyxl101 12y ago

> Tipping is just a way for American employers to rip off their most vulnerable workers. Could you please elaborate? I don't see how tipping can be involved in ripping off workers in the United States. Employers are always required to pay their workers minimum wage - the federal minimum wage in the worst case, and sometimes the state minimum wage when it applies and is higher. See: http://www.dol.gov/elaws/faq/esa/flsa/002.htm http://www.dol.gov/elaws/faq/esa/flsa/002.htm > If an employee's tips combined with the employer's direct wages[] do not equal the federal minimum hourly wage, the employer must make up the difference.

jordanthoms 12y ago
For jobs where tipping is expected, in most states the expected tips can be taken away from the minimum wage - so a server could be paid $2 per hour + tips.
npizzolato 12y ago
While that may be technically true, I imagine any waiter not able to pull in tips to exceed the minimum wage would soon find themselves out of a job, especially in at-will states. In practice tipping just transfers the cost from the employer to the consumer.
- waterlesscloud 12y ago
  The cost is always going to be covered by the consumer.
  - click170 12y ago
    When the cost is included in the bill, the consumer has less choice. When its an implied "tip", its optional.
    - orangecat 12y ago
      In theory yes, but it's basically not optional when the overwhelming social consensus is that you're a horrible person if you don't tip, even for mediocre service. Maybe it started out as a way to reward excellent service, but now it just allows businesses to deceive customers by posting prices that are less than what you actually end up paying.
    - darmin 12y ago
      No contradiction. The customer has the choice of covering the tip with money or with social retribution. Either way, they're the ones paying.
click170 12y ago
Except that the legislators and employers take tips into account when lobbying for and setting the minimum wage. We see it as "that waiter was nice, leave a generous tip". Employers see it as "if they don't do a good enough job they won't make any tips, and the problem will naturally work itself out." This is patently unfair because it treats tips as implied expected income, and wages are set so low that you can't make a livable income without them. This is patently unfair.

tormeh 12y ago

It also contributes to sexual harassment. It's a bit evil, basically.

jedberg 12y ago

> Stereotypes of French waiters aside, Which I found to be quite wrong. I didn't have a single experience of bad service in my week in Paris.