5 ms·

I'm pretty sure that (on my MacBook Air, anyway) you only need to get a kext installed for the camera to not light up.

by 0942v8653 12y ago

MichaelCrawford 12y ago
I know some ways around that.
- fru2013 12y ago
  Please share.
  - MichaelCrawford 12y ago
    I could tell you but then I'd have to kill you. Well OK... More or less like writing any kind of virus. Apple likes to claim that OS X is more secure. In reality, most of those who write malware own Windows boxen.
    - arm 12y ago
      I don’t think you fully understood what 0942v8653 said; why would you write malware to perform the default behaviour (the LED turning on when the camera is on)?
- lawnchair_larry 12y ago
  They don't work on macbooks.
revelation 12y ago
You make it sound as if that is some kind of security revelation. In reality, what you are saying is 'the light is controlled in software'. Which is just another way of saying "that light is just a light, and it has only a tenuous connection to the camera being enabled". Which is of course an utter joke.
- jrochkind1 12y ago
  The light was not meant to be controlled in software, it was intended to have a “hardware interlock” to the camera. But they forgot firmware is software too, and is hackable too. (Now that's a 'leaky abstraction' for ya). http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2013/12/18/research-shows-how-macbook-webcams-can-spy-on-their-users-without-warning/ http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2013/12/18... Turns out security is hard. Even compared to just 5 years ago, I think a lot more engineers are realizing how hard security actually is.
  - revelation 12y ago
    Turns out this is a really, really trivial problem to solve in hardware. Delegating it to their peripheral microcontroller is not a hardware solution, it's just the same software nonsense. Security is hard in software because from the undecidable halting problem it immediately follows that any non-trivial property of software (such as "does the micro firmware turn the LED on when the camera is on") can also not be decided. There is no halting problem in hardware. But I hear they have very, very cheap switches nowadays that could easily control the power to the camera and a parallel LED.
    - MichaelCrawford 12y ago
      I am curious about your assertion that there is no halting problem in hardware. I've seen advertisements for automated circuit design tools that will convert a C program into the schematic for a chip that does the same thing, only in hardware. That leads me to believe that hardware must have the halting problem as well. However I only have a passing understanding of the halting problem. Can you enlighten me?
      - TheLoneWolfling 12y ago
        Hardware does have the halting problem. (As you could very easily make your hardware be a CPU with ROM that is "run program, then assert" - if the program halts, it'll assert. Hence - halting problem)
lawnchair_larry 12y ago
Nope.

I'm pretty sure that (on my MacBook Air, anyway) you only need to get a kext installed for the camera to not light up.

MichaelCrawford 12y ago

I know some ways around that.

fru2013 12y ago
Please share.
- MichaelCrawford 12y ago
  I could tell you but then I'd have to kill you. Well OK... More or less like writing any kind of virus. Apple likes to claim that OS X is more secure. In reality, most of those who write malware own Windows boxen.
  - arm 12y ago
    I don’t think you fully understood what 0942v8653 said; why would you write malware to perform the default behaviour (the LED turning on when the camera is on)?
lawnchair_larry 12y ago
They don't work on macbooks.

revelation 12y ago

You make it sound as if that is some kind of security revelation. In reality, what you are saying is 'the light is controlled in software'. Which is just another way of saying "that light is just a light, and it has only a tenuous connection to the camera being enabled". Which is of course an utter joke.

jrochkind1 12y ago
The light was not meant to be controlled in software, it was intended to have a “hardware interlock” to the camera. But they forgot firmware is software too, and is hackable too. (Now that's a 'leaky abstraction' for ya). http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2013/12/18/research-shows-how-macbook-webcams-can-spy-on-their-users-without-warning/ http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2013/12/18... Turns out security is hard. Even compared to just 5 years ago, I think a lot more engineers are realizing how hard security actually is.
- revelation 12y ago
  Turns out this is a really, really trivial problem to solve in hardware. Delegating it to their peripheral microcontroller is not a hardware solution, it's just the same software nonsense. Security is hard in software because from the undecidable halting problem it immediately follows that any non-trivial property of software (such as "does the micro firmware turn the LED on when the camera is on") can also not be decided. There is no halting problem in hardware. But I hear they have very, very cheap switches nowadays that could easily control the power to the camera and a parallel LED.
  - MichaelCrawford 12y ago
    I am curious about your assertion that there is no halting problem in hardware. I've seen advertisements for automated circuit design tools that will convert a C program into the schematic for a chip that does the same thing, only in hardware. That leads me to believe that hardware must have the halting problem as well. However I only have a passing understanding of the halting problem. Can you enlighten me?
    - TheLoneWolfling 12y ago
      Hardware does have the halting problem. (As you could very easily make your hardware be a CPU with ROM that is "run program, then assert" - if the program halts, it'll assert. Hence - halting problem)

lawnchair_larry 12y ago

Nope.