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by definition you cannot support objectivism and at the same time be impervious to reason. http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/reason.html http://aynrandlexicon.c

by lucio 12y ago

by definition you cannot support objectivism and at the same time be impervious to reason. http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/reason.html http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/reason.html

pja 12y ago
Human beings are really, really good at constructing logical arguments for things they want to be true and ignoring or downplaying counter-arguments. Objectivism is no exception.
- Retric 12y ago
  Further, any philosophy that includes axioms limits the value of logical reasoning. If X (which is assumed to be true) and Y then Z. It might be logically valid, but it’s still meaningless.
  - mentat 12y ago
    Which is... every philosophy that exists?
  - dragonwriter 12y ago
    > Further, any philosophy that includes axioms limits the value of logical reasoning. On the contrary, as logical reasoning in any particular system of logic depends on the set of axioms defining that system of logic, any philosophy which does not admit any axioms likewise does not admit logical reasoning, and any philosophy which only includes those axioms necessary to support a system of logic can't lead to any conclusions other than those that constitute the description of the system of logic. In order for a philosophy to have interesting consequences, it must have substantive axioms.
    - Retric 12y ago
      And that’s a swing and a miss. Axioms might include input from observations. "If I observe X then the gods are pleased." Followed by a lot of meaningless but perfectly logical thought. Side stepping that, from a pure logic standpoint you can reason about philosophies independent from reality. But, with nothing actually connecting them to physical reality the value of such effort is basically just aesthetic in nature. "TRUTH is ..."
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PhasmaFelis 12y ago
That's a bold application of no-true-Scotsman. What percentage of avowed Objectivists do you figure are liars, then? Or are you saying that Objectivism provides a magical shield against unreasonable behavior?

by lucio 12y ago

by definition you cannot support objectivism and at the same time be impervious to reason. http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/reason.html http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/reason.html

pja 12y ago

Human beings are really, really good at constructing logical arguments for things they want to be true and ignoring or downplaying counter-arguments. Objectivism is no exception.

Retric 12y ago
Further, any philosophy that includes axioms limits the value of logical reasoning. If X (which is assumed to be true) and Y then Z. It might be logically valid, but it’s still meaningless.
- mentat 12y ago
  Which is... every philosophy that exists?
- dragonwriter 12y ago
  > Further, any philosophy that includes axioms limits the value of logical reasoning. On the contrary, as logical reasoning in any particular system of logic depends on the set of axioms defining that system of logic, any philosophy which does not admit any axioms likewise does not admit logical reasoning, and any philosophy which only includes those axioms necessary to support a system of logic can't lead to any conclusions other than those that constitute the description of the system of logic. In order for a philosophy to have interesting consequences, it must have substantive axioms.
  - Retric 12y ago
    And that’s a swing and a miss. Axioms might include input from observations. "If I observe X then the gods are pleased." Followed by a lot of meaningless but perfectly logical thought. Side stepping that, from a pure logic standpoint you can reason about philosophies independent from reality. But, with nothing actually connecting them to physical reality the value of such effort is basically just aesthetic in nature. "TRUTH is ..."

deleted 12y ago

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PhasmaFelis 12y ago

That's a bold application of no-true-Scotsman. What percentage of avowed Objectivists do you figure are liars, then? Or are you saying that Objectivism provides a magical shield against unreasonable behavior?