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> ... in reality the entire West acts as one. You might have to narrow the definition of 'reality' somewhat for that to become true.

happyscrappy 12y ago
Where is Snowden welcome in the West?
- pyre 12y ago
  I think that you have a different definition of "acts as one" than most people. Most "Western" countries have extradition treaties. Even if they didn't, it is known that the CIA operates within their borders, even if they don't like it. Also, there are plenty of non-Western countries were Snowden wouldn't go too. I'm pretty sure that had he remained in China, he wouldn't be in as good of a position as he is now. Is China part of the "West" that "acts as one?" Hardly.
  - happyscrappy 12y ago
    European governments did not say you are welcome to come but the CIA still might get you, they said he is not welcome. The longer Europeans pretend that their governments are not complicit the easier it is to keep the status quo.
    - pyre 12y ago
      Saying "I don't want to deal with this issue" is also different from saying "I am acting in concert with you, we are part if a hive-mind that speaks with a single voice, and 0 dissent," which is what you originally implied (and held up the treatment of Snowden as 'proof' of).
- richmarr 12y ago
  Iceland, the Netherlands, Switzerland and Norway all said they'd consider his asylum request if he made it from their soil, as their laws require. We don't have to go far to find examples that disprove your "West acts as one" assertion. This is a thread about North Korea, so I give you Hans Brix (or Hans Blix if you prefer), and the failure of the USA to secure a UN resolution in 2003. The USA couldn't even convince France or Germany that the Iraq invasion was justified (let alone wise). If it wasn't for Tony Blair the list of US allies would have been very very thin indeed.
  - happyscrappy 12y ago
    So you have one example of one disagreement about a war which was run from Germany even though they disagreed.

happyscrappy 12y ago

Where is Snowden welcome in the West?

pyre 12y ago
I think that you have a different definition of "acts as one" than most people. Most "Western" countries have extradition treaties. Even if they didn't, it is known that the CIA operates within their borders, even if they don't like it. Also, there are plenty of non-Western countries were Snowden wouldn't go too. I'm pretty sure that had he remained in China, he wouldn't be in as good of a position as he is now. Is China part of the "West" that "acts as one?" Hardly.
- happyscrappy 12y ago
  European governments did not say you are welcome to come but the CIA still might get you, they said he is not welcome. The longer Europeans pretend that their governments are not complicit the easier it is to keep the status quo.
  - pyre 12y ago
    Saying "I don't want to deal with this issue" is also different from saying "I am acting in concert with you, we are part if a hive-mind that speaks with a single voice, and 0 dissent," which is what you originally implied (and held up the treatment of Snowden as 'proof' of).
richmarr 12y ago
Iceland, the Netherlands, Switzerland and Norway all said they'd consider his asylum request if he made it from their soil, as their laws require. We don't have to go far to find examples that disprove your "West acts as one" assertion. This is a thread about North Korea, so I give you Hans Brix (or Hans Blix if you prefer), and the failure of the USA to secure a UN resolution in 2003. The USA couldn't even convince France or Germany that the Iraq invasion was justified (let alone wise). If it wasn't for Tony Blair the list of US allies would have been very very thin indeed.
- happyscrappy 12y ago
  So you have one example of one disagreement about a war which was run from Germany even though they disagreed.