6 ms·

One group dominates the second round of net neutrality comments

86 points by fragsworth 12y ago

anigbrowl 12y ago
Meanwhile, here's how American Commitment spins the Sunlight Foundation report: 'CONSERVATIVES OPPOSED TO INTERNET REGULATION WON FCC COMMENT PERIOD BY LANDSLIDE.' “We’re pleased that the Sunlight Foundation is finally confirming that American Commitment and Americans opposed to regulation of the Internet won the FCC comment period. Better late than never,” said Phil Kerpen, president of American Commitment. http://www.americancommitment.org/content/conservatives-opposed-internet-regulation-won-fcc-comment-period-landslide http://www.americancommitment.org/content/conservatives-oppo... Note how they say they 'won' the comment period, as if each letter or email counted as a vote and the FCC is obliged to treat the input quantitatively rather than qualitatively. This sort of lobbying is a win-win for the advocacy organizations that engage in it (across the political spectrum): either the government does what they want and they declare victory, or the government does not in which case they fulminate about 'the will of the people' being thwarted and do another round of fundraising/PR on the back of that. You can make quite a nice living running a 'nonprofit' like this - $175k/year is a decent salary for booking adverts using donors' money. http://990s.foundationcenter.org/990_pdf_archive/452/452600535/452600535_201212_990O.pdf http://990s.foundationcenter.org/990_pdf_archive/452/4526005...
- deciplex 12y ago
  It's hard to reconcile the widespread success of this blatantly and openly manipulative horseshit, with the claim that America is a self-governing nation by the people.
  - uxp 12y ago
    It's interesting reading some of the form letters in opposition. Here's an excerpt. Regulating the Internet would be a job killer. All those who are employed as tech support, companies that make and deploy servers, routers, coax and fiber-optic cable will suffer job losses if the FCC chases billions of dollars of investments away by regulating Internet services as if they were a public utility. Every time Washington bureaucrats have grabbed massive new powers for themselves, they have created economic and human wreckage in their wake. Obamacare regulations on the healthcare system have cost millions of Americans their health insurance, and raised the cost of insurance and deductibles to millions more. That's just an outright lie. Here's a rhetorical question. If a DDoS is classified as an attack because the client consuming server resources doesn't actually care about the resource, then what is flooding a comment board with identically wrong and manipulative letters?
    - rayiner 12y ago
      None of that is a lie, it's just looking at particular pieces of the overall issue. Obamacare has cost a lot of people their (existing, non-ACA compliant) plans, and it has raised the cost of insurance for other people. That's inevitable with the ACA: covering people with pre-existing conditions, etc, means some people will pay more (particularly younger people). I think the ACA is a good thing, by the way, but I'm not deluded enough to believe that you can cover more of the sickest people without paying more money. The point about telecom jobs isn't a lie either. What was the impact of local-loop unbundling, which made investment into DSL unattractive, on DSL installers? The mechanics of the telecom industry aren't any different than that of Silicon Valley: people aren't going to spend a bunch of money hiring people to build things unless there is a potential for a big payout at the end. Companies like Verizon are already under the gun from investors for the billions they spent deploying fiber. Making it less attractive to be in the business of building infrastructure isn't going to increase the amount of investment and jobs in the sector. Now, you could argue that Title II might nonetheless be beneficial on the net, but it's not a lie to point out the things that could be hurt by the Title II regulations.
      - _dark_matter_ 12y ago
        I'm confused at why you are being downvoted. This is a reasonable response explaining the comments covered by the parent post. You aren't even arguing for or against! Ridiculous.
        knightofmars 12y ago
        Because, human nature.
      - knightofmars 12y ago
        I think you hit the nail slightly off center with, "...people aren't going to spend a bunch of money hiring people to build things unless there is a potential for a big payout at the end." Verizon and all other ISPs will make money and lots of it, period. Whether or not they make insane profits or more insane profits is what investors are looking at. Also, in regards to building infrastructure they already play games when reporting how much they've spent upgrading and maintaining infrastructure. Why would they do that? Because they know that the total amount is so ridiculously small when compared with their profits that they'll be laughed at if they try to make it a reason against regulation.
bendoernberg 12y ago
For context, see Fight for the Future's blog post on why "numerous problems with [the Sunlight Foundation's] data and their methodology make it impossible to support their conclusions": http://tumblr.fightforthefuture.org/post/105475259503/why-is-sunlight-foundation-playing-into-american http://tumblr.fightforthefuture.org/post/105475259503/why-is...
- nullsub 12y ago
  for context for that "context": Clearing up the confusion about our analysis of net neutrality comments to the FCC http://sunlightfoundation.com/blog/2014/12/17/clearing-up-the-confusion-about-our-analysis-of-net-neutrality-comments-to-the-fcc/ http://sunlightfoundation.com/blog/2014/12/17/clearing-up-th...
sinwave 12y ago
Glad to see a shoutout to Radim Rehurek and gensim. The library is really a joy to work with.
brohoolio 12y ago
I hope the FCC sees this or has tools to detect these manipulations.
- astrodust 12y ago
  I would not be surprised if the FCC dealt with comments in paper form.
4ydx 12y ago
Framing the idea that ensuring private companies adhere to the status quo is somehow "bad" regulation which will destroy the fabric of the internet is really hilarious. While the decision hasn't been made yet, I would be absolutely amazed if pro-isp tiered rules are not implemented.
kokey 12y ago
I don't see how this is different to all the pro net neutrality activism and lobbying going on, except that it's an opposition opinion. It also seems to play on the narrative that people who are against expanding regulation are not rational individuals, they are instead reduced to mere tools controlled by a pair of Koch villains intent on destruction of earth and society to make themselves richer.
- themartorana 12y ago
  The Republican Party and to a greater extent, the Tea Party, have mobilized a mostly-white, mostly-male, mostly-middle-to-lower-class pool of voters who are in many cases irrational - voting against their better interests in the name of conviction, mostly based on race and religion. It's why there is constant saber-rattling about "wedge issues" like abortion and "takers" despite a significant portion of Tea Party voters being around or below the poverty line, or reliant on some degree of public assistance. This army of people does often mobilize as a single unit, dictated to through the likes of Fox News. Talk about how black people want free "X" and you can get lots of people to fill out a form letter without trying. We're a Republic for the very reason that it was known that en-masse, often times people are irrational and do go against their own benefit for ideology. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/oct/29/working-class-voters-america-republican http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/oct/29/working-class-v...
  - kokey 12y ago
    I don't see how this is different to a gullible online youth mobilized through videos and petitions. You just have to say evil corporations want to control and make you pay for things you want for free, devoid of details for people to make a rational decision with. This is from 2006: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOJnKgsWPGw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOJnKgsWPGw
  - crusso 12y ago
    voting against their better interests in the name of conviction Yes, that's called having principles.
FoloX 12y ago
Good sorting of analytics. The machine data is accurate as the excess formats of 2.5 were accounted for in the data records if you list the data from the objects.
mmcconnell1618 12y ago
In the age of zero cost "letter writing" why would anyone consider the count of letters received as a valid indicator of sentiment? There are other legitimate means to determine public opinion if that is what the FCC really wants to know. My fear is that they don't really care what the public thinks.
Matt_Cutts 12y ago
A follow up post: http://sunlightfoundation.com/blog/2014/12/17/clearing-up-the-confusion-about-our-analysis-of-net-neutrality-comments-to-the-fcc/ http://sunlightfoundation.com/blog/2014/12/17/clearing-up-th...
steego 12y ago
I think this article overlooks one teensy weensy tiny little event that may have an effect on conservatives writing in to oppose Net Neutrality: [President Obama Urges FCC to Implement Stronger Net Neutrality Rules|http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2014/11/10/president-obama-urges-fcc-implement-stronger-net-neutrality-rules http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2014/11/10/president-obama-ur...] The fact of the matter is most people don't understand a lot of the nuances behind the issue. They don't understand the telcos actually leverage various forms of local, state and federal regulation to reduce competition and they cry to the public about excessive government regulation when anybody threatens their duopoly benefits.
mikeyouse 12y ago
In what I'm sure is just a coincidence, the group bragging about 'winning' the comment period (who are a notorious Koch front group: http://i.imgur.com/YE4kpt1.png http://i.imgur.com/YE4kpt1.png) just happened to have written a legal opinion to the FTC in support of the Comcast / TWC merger as well: [Warning, .RTF file download since Imgur is down, page 196:] http://www.shareholder.com/visitors/activeedgardoc.cfm?f=rtf&companyid=CMCSA&id=10192356 http://www.shareholder.com/visitors/activeedgardoc.cfm?f=rtf... Excited to see which new donors show up in their 2014 financial filings.

86 points by fragsworth 12y ago

Meanwhile, here's how American Commitment spins the Sunlight Foundation report: 'CONSERVATIVES OPPOSED TO INTERNET REGULATION WON FCC COMMENT PERIOD BY LANDSLIDE.' “We’re pleased that the Sunlight Foundation is finally confirming that American Commitment and Americans opposed to regulation of the Internet won the FCC comment period. Better late than never,” said Phil Kerpen, president of American Commitment. http://www.americancommitment.org/content/conservatives-opposed-internet-regulation-won-fcc-comment-period-landslide http://www.americancommitment.org/content/conservatives-oppo... Note how they say they 'won' the comment period, as if each letter or email counted as a vote and the FCC is obliged to treat the input quantitatively rather than qualitatively. This sort of lobbying is a win-win for the advocacy organizations that engage in it (across the political spectrum): either the government does what they want and they declare victory, or the government does not in which case they fulminate about 'the will of the people' being thwarted and do another round of fundraising/PR on the back of that. You can make quite a nice living running a 'nonprofit' like this - $175k/year is a decent salary for booking adverts using donors' money. http://990s.foundationcenter.org/990_pdf_archive/452/452600535/452600535_201212_990O.pdf http://990s.foundationcenter.org/990_pdf_archive/452/4526005...

deciplex 12y ago
It's hard to reconcile the widespread success of this blatantly and openly manipulative horseshit, with the claim that America is a self-governing nation by the people.
- uxp 12y ago
  It's interesting reading some of the form letters in opposition. Here's an excerpt. Regulating the Internet would be a job killer. All those who are employed as tech support, companies that make and deploy servers, routers, coax and fiber-optic cable will suffer job losses if the FCC chases billions of dollars of investments away by regulating Internet services as if they were a public utility. Every time Washington bureaucrats have grabbed massive new powers for themselves, they have created economic and human wreckage in their wake. Obamacare regulations on the healthcare system have cost millions of Americans their health insurance, and raised the cost of insurance and deductibles to millions more. That's just an outright lie. Here's a rhetorical question. If a DDoS is classified as an attack because the client consuming server resources doesn't actually care about the resource, then what is flooding a comment board with identically wrong and manipulative letters?
  - rayiner 12y ago
    None of that is a lie, it's just looking at particular pieces of the overall issue. Obamacare has cost a lot of people their (existing, non-ACA compliant) plans, and it has raised the cost of insurance for other people. That's inevitable with the ACA: covering people with pre-existing conditions, etc, means some people will pay more (particularly younger people). I think the ACA is a good thing, by the way, but I'm not deluded enough to believe that you can cover more of the sickest people without paying more money. The point about telecom jobs isn't a lie either. What was the impact of local-loop unbundling, which made investment into DSL unattractive, on DSL installers? The mechanics of the telecom industry aren't any different than that of Silicon Valley: people aren't going to spend a bunch of money hiring people to build things unless there is a potential for a big payout at the end. Companies like Verizon are already under the gun from investors for the billions they spent deploying fiber. Making it less attractive to be in the business of building infrastructure isn't going to increase the amount of investment and jobs in the sector. Now, you could argue that Title II might nonetheless be beneficial on the net, but it's not a lie to point out the things that could be hurt by the Title II regulations.
    - _dark_matter_ 12y ago
      I'm confused at why you are being downvoted. This is a reasonable response explaining the comments covered by the parent post. You aren't even arguing for or against! Ridiculous.
      - knightofmars 12y ago
        Because, human nature.
    - knightofmars 12y ago
      I think you hit the nail slightly off center with, "...people aren't going to spend a bunch of money hiring people to build things unless there is a potential for a big payout at the end." Verizon and all other ISPs will make money and lots of it, period. Whether or not they make insane profits or more insane profits is what investors are looking at. Also, in regards to building infrastructure they already play games when reporting how much they've spent upgrading and maintaining infrastructure. Why would they do that? Because they know that the total amount is so ridiculously small when compared with their profits that they'll be laughed at if they try to make it a reason against regulation.

bendoernberg 12y ago

For context, see Fight for the Future's blog post on why "numerous problems with [the Sunlight Foundation's] data and their methodology make it impossible to support their conclusions": http://tumblr.fightforthefuture.org/post/105475259503/why-is-sunlight-foundation-playing-into-american http://tumblr.fightforthefuture.org/post/105475259503/why-is...

nullsub 12y ago
for context for that "context": Clearing up the confusion about our analysis of net neutrality comments to the FCC http://sunlightfoundation.com/blog/2014/12/17/clearing-up-the-confusion-about-our-analysis-of-net-neutrality-comments-to-the-fcc/ http://sunlightfoundation.com/blog/2014/12/17/clearing-up-th...

sinwave 12y ago

Glad to see a shoutout to Radim Rehurek and gensim. The library is really a joy to work with.

brohoolio 12y ago

I hope the FCC sees this or has tools to detect these manipulations.

astrodust 12y ago
I would not be surprised if the FCC dealt with comments in paper form.

4ydx 12y ago

Framing the idea that ensuring private companies adhere to the status quo is somehow "bad" regulation which will destroy the fabric of the internet is really hilarious. While the decision hasn't been made yet, I would be absolutely amazed if pro-isp tiered rules are not implemented.

kokey 12y ago

I don't see how this is different to all the pro net neutrality activism and lobbying going on, except that it's an opposition opinion. It also seems to play on the narrative that people who are against expanding regulation are not rational individuals, they are instead reduced to mere tools controlled by a pair of Koch villains intent on destruction of earth and society to make themselves richer.

themartorana 12y ago
The Republican Party and to a greater extent, the Tea Party, have mobilized a mostly-white, mostly-male, mostly-middle-to-lower-class pool of voters who are in many cases irrational - voting against their better interests in the name of conviction, mostly based on race and religion. It's why there is constant saber-rattling about "wedge issues" like abortion and "takers" despite a significant portion of Tea Party voters being around or below the poverty line, or reliant on some degree of public assistance. This army of people does often mobilize as a single unit, dictated to through the likes of Fox News. Talk about how black people want free "X" and you can get lots of people to fill out a form letter without trying. We're a Republic for the very reason that it was known that en-masse, often times people are irrational and do go against their own benefit for ideology. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/oct/29/working-class-voters-america-republican http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/oct/29/working-class-v...
- kokey 12y ago
  I don't see how this is different to a gullible online youth mobilized through videos and petitions. You just have to say evil corporations want to control and make you pay for things you want for free, devoid of details for people to make a rational decision with. This is from 2006: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOJnKgsWPGw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOJnKgsWPGw
- crusso 12y ago
  voting against their better interests in the name of conviction Yes, that's called having principles.

FoloX 12y ago

Good sorting of analytics. The machine data is accurate as the excess formats of 2.5 were accounted for in the data records if you list the data from the objects.

mmcconnell1618 12y ago

In the age of zero cost "letter writing" why would anyone consider the count of letters received as a valid indicator of sentiment? There are other legitimate means to determine public opinion if that is what the FCC really wants to know. My fear is that they don't really care what the public thinks.

Matt_Cutts 12y ago

A follow up post: http://sunlightfoundation.com/blog/2014/12/17/clearing-up-the-confusion-about-our-analysis-of-net-neutrality-comments-to-the-fcc/ http://sunlightfoundation.com/blog/2014/12/17/clearing-up-th...

steego 12y ago

I think this article overlooks one teensy weensy tiny little event that may have an effect on conservatives writing in to oppose Net Neutrality: [President Obama Urges FCC to Implement Stronger Net Neutrality Rules|http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2014/11/10/president-obama-urges-fcc-implement-stronger-net-neutrality-rules http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2014/11/10/president-obama-ur...] The fact of the matter is most people don't understand a lot of the nuances behind the issue. They don't understand the telcos actually leverage various forms of local, state and federal regulation to reduce competition and they cry to the public about excessive government regulation when anybody threatens their duopoly benefits.

mikeyouse 12y ago

In what I'm sure is just a coincidence, the group bragging about 'winning' the comment period (who are a notorious Koch front group: http://i.imgur.com/YE4kpt1.png http://i.imgur.com/YE4kpt1.png) just happened to have written a legal opinion to the FTC in support of the Comcast / TWC merger as well: [Warning, .RTF file download since Imgur is down, page 196:] http://www.shareholder.com/visitors/activeedgardoc.cfm?f=rtf&companyid=CMCSA&id=10192356 http://www.shareholder.com/visitors/activeedgardoc.cfm?f=rtf... Excited to see which new donors show up in their 2014 financial filings.