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Ugh. This is thinly-veiled native advertising for the persona of a 24-year-old executive, presumably as insurance for him against possible business issues (read

Ugh. This is thinly-veiled native advertising for the persona of a 24-year-old executive, presumably as insurance for him against possible business issues (read: building up his personal reputation to prepare for Snapchat headwinds). Anyone who can't see that is delusional. I almost wonder if he paid to have "I'd rather not burn another $100mm of OPM [other peoples' money] before we find out whether or not we have a business" leaked so he can present himself as frugal, should the chips go down in the next year or two, and people accuse him of being the opposite. If that email is "very impressive", then I'm Jesus H. Christ. Any lepers need cured? First, he's a bad writer. He'd barely get a C in a freshman English class, and that's with grade inflation. He doesn't know where to place commas or how to use punctuation. (That doesn't make his business emails unusual for the genre, but it rules out calling him "impressive".) Second, the only thing that is impressive or unusual (for that age) about his communication style is that, yes, he has an above-average level of confidence, and most 23-year-olds from middle-class backgrounds are still scared of their bosses, not talking about a business like they run the place. But who wouldn't have that confidence, after having so much handed to him? This isn't damaging like his frat-boy communications but it's not really interesting. Sure, he knows some things about the business that he's the CEO of, but if he were 30 or 40 and wrote that email, people would be underwhelmed at his mediocrity, expecting better. This bizarre age-curving is irritating because (a) what should really matter is where people are, and where they're headed, not whether they're 24 or 67 or 38+√(-163), and (b) because so much early success in the Valley is manufactured and delivered via connections rather than merit. (Silicon Valley's ageism is an expression of its classism.) Given that a 40-year-old CEO who wrote an email like that would (and rightfully) be considered somewhat off-the-ball, we should apply the same standard to Mr. Spiegel.

onedev 12y ago
Michael, you should have a news segment kinda like John Oliver's. I'd watch the hell out of it. Maybe you can call it "Tales of Valleyistan".
- michaelochurch 12y ago
  I did some open-mic stand-up (not very successfully) in my early 20s. I wasn't good back then; maybe I'd be better these days, but I have a million other things to do. The one joke of mine (I think? It may have been independently discovered, though) that has seen some dissemination is "I stopped doing that years ago" (as in, said after someone describes something really creepy, offensive, or off-the-wall). The joke may have been ruined by Evan Spiegel using it after reading a certain controversial Rolling Stone article, though.
jcampbell1 12y ago
This is part of the Sony cyber-attack/leak. You seemed to have missed that.
- michaelochurch 12y ago
  Obviously he didn't write the emails with the intention of them being leaked in this way, since it would have been impossible to predict the Sony attack (unless he caused it, which is extremely unlikely because I don't see him mustering the technical skill). All that said, I'm sure that, after the leak occurred, he had his team look into ways to make it maximally advantageous to his career and reputation.
existencebox 12y ago
Let me be blunt; (to preface, this is entirely a comment on my own shortfallings and not a disagreement with your statement) I didn't have such a painful read of it as you seem to imply. Would you have examples of similar responses which are considered of much higher quality? (I assume the PG essays, but they are a different beast.) I'd be very interested in using this as a vector to learn from someone else's mistakes, given that I find myself unable to notice them on my own.
- michaelochurch 12y ago
  He doesn't know where to use commas and how to make his sentences flow. Too many of them are unnecessarily run-ons. (Long sentences are sometimes exactly what you want, but there's an art to it.) He has some fragments and, while sentence fragments are sometimes great, he doesn't have the subtlety to use them properly. (Most people don't; in that case, stick to full sentences.) He screws up on punctuation all over the place and uses abbreviations like "am" for "morning". This is fine if you're texting, but he's not. There's a general lack of clarity and professionalism in his writing. He doesn't respect others in the conversation enough to give them his full attention. Get him to talk about himself, and he'll go on and on and run over any obstacle (proper grammar, good taste) but expect him to express a thought clearly and it won't happen.
defen 12y ago
1) No one cares about email grammar and punctuation because the marginal payoff of proofreading it is nil 2) The fact that this got published in BI may or may not be "paid advertising", but this was leaked as part of the Sony hack. Are you seriously claiming there is any chance that whole thing was masterminded by Spiegel as part of some elaborate long game defense of his reputation?
ececconi 12y ago
I don't think an internal email is representative of a person's writing skills. Take it for what it was meant to be, stream of consciousness communication to one other person. Something that he obviously spent more time on is below. I don't see a single run on sentence in that link. http://techcrunch.com/2014/12/17/snapchat-ceo-evan-spiegel-on-email-hacks-our-work-has-been-violated-and-exposed/ http://techcrunch.com/2014/12/17/snapchat-ceo-evan-spiegel-o...
billsossoon 12y ago
I was curious to see how you'd react to this, since Spiegel's success has been such a thorn in your side. So let's see, you opened with conspiracy theory nutjob (so maybe the real purpose of the Sony hack was to leak Spiegel's private email and bolster his personal brand??), and segued nicely into grammar nazi pedant (as if anybody, anywhere called the email impressive due to its punctuation). > First, he's a bad writer. He'd barely get a C in a freshman English class > Any lepers need cured? And you probably spent as more time writing your comment than Spiegel did writing his email. > Given that a 40-year-old CEO who wrote an email like that would (and rightfully) be considered somewhat off-the-ball No. Maybe all the 40-year-old CEOs who privately email you write exceptionally well, but that hasn't been my experience at all.
- ohsnapman 12y ago
  michaelochurch is many things, but I don't have any doubts in my mind that one of his talents is writing a lot, and writing it really fast. http://michaelochurch.wordpress.com/ http://michaelochurch.wordpress.com/
- michaelochurch 12y ago
  I was curious to see how you'd react to this, since Spiegel's success has been such a thorn in your side. I don't care about him, personally. He's boring. I care about frat boys being funded at the expense of people with actual ideas. I care about a generation of technologists that has been sold out because a bunch of smooth-operator, manipulative invaders have come in and outcompeted true technologists for funding and coverage, and the VCs have let it happen. If they were worth their millions per year, they simply wouldn't. If they could actually spot talent sufficiently well to justify their obscene salaries, they wouldn't be funding frat boys. I react strongly because this nonsense is very bad for the world. If Evan Spiegel wasn't part of something that's setting technology back by decades, I wouldn't give a rat's ass about him or his billions either way. So let's see, you opened with conspiracy theory nutjob No, you misunderstand. Obviously, he didn't intend for the Sony hack to happen. My contention is that, after the hack happened, he got quickly to work on figuring out how to use it best to bolster his reputation. An effective sociopath doesn't expect to control the world, because that's impossible, but only to exploit events as they come for maximal personal benefit. Clearly, Spiegel had nothing to do with the Sony hack. I'm arguing that his PR apparatus engaged shortly afterward. Given that Snapchat Beliebers (employees?) have come out of the woodwork to downvote me into oblivion, it's not that far fetched. His PR team (which may include the whole company) clearly managed to find my posts on a Wednesday afternoon. This means that they respond quickly to events large and small... and what I say on Hacker News is clearly less newsworthy than the Sony hack. And you probably spent as more time writing your comment than Spiegel did writing his email. I see what you're trying to say, and it doesn't work. Emails to investors, because your employees' livelihoods depend on them, deserve more time than Hacker News posts. Writing them quickly, when not well, isn't something to be bragged about. Granted, he's probably going for neoteny to some extent, and I'm sure he uses uptalk when interacting with investors, but even still... he should learn to communicate clearly and professionally.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
nilkn 12y ago
Although I agree with you that this was not a well-written email at all, I've personally found it to be quite common for people in Spiegel's position to write surprisingly badly for business communication. My first boss out of college, for instance, was a multi-millionaire whose general writing style was full of run-ons and countless "fuck"s. It stood out to me quite a bit, but it was obvious that when writing really mattered he was capable of producing perfect grammar, as if it were out of a textbook. I don't like Spiegel either, but I wouldn't take this as truly representative of his writing ability. I think this phenomenon occurs due to a combination of (1) there's a point in the chain of power after which it's more cost efficient to just get the email written and sent than to worry about its composition; and (2) when you're at the top you don't have nearly as many people whom you must impress.

onedev 12y ago

Michael, you should have a news segment kinda like John Oliver's. I'd watch the hell out of it. Maybe you can call it "Tales of Valleyistan".

michaelochurch 12y ago
I did some open-mic stand-up (not very successfully) in my early 20s. I wasn't good back then; maybe I'd be better these days, but I have a million other things to do. The one joke of mine (I think? It may have been independently discovered, though) that has seen some dissemination is "I stopped doing that years ago" (as in, said after someone describes something really creepy, offensive, or off-the-wall). The joke may have been ruined by Evan Spiegel using it after reading a certain controversial Rolling Stone article, though.

jcampbell1 12y ago

This is part of the Sony cyber-attack/leak. You seemed to have missed that.

michaelochurch 12y ago
Obviously he didn't write the emails with the intention of them being leaked in this way, since it would have been impossible to predict the Sony attack (unless he caused it, which is extremely unlikely because I don't see him mustering the technical skill). All that said, I'm sure that, after the leak occurred, he had his team look into ways to make it maximally advantageous to his career and reputation.

existencebox 12y ago

Let me be blunt; (to preface, this is entirely a comment on my own shortfallings and not a disagreement with your statement) I didn't have such a painful read of it as you seem to imply. Would you have examples of similar responses which are considered of much higher quality? (I assume the PG essays, but they are a different beast.) I'd be very interested in using this as a vector to learn from someone else's mistakes, given that I find myself unable to notice them on my own.

michaelochurch 12y ago
He doesn't know where to use commas and how to make his sentences flow. Too many of them are unnecessarily run-ons. (Long sentences are sometimes exactly what you want, but there's an art to it.) He has some fragments and, while sentence fragments are sometimes great, he doesn't have the subtlety to use them properly. (Most people don't; in that case, stick to full sentences.) He screws up on punctuation all over the place and uses abbreviations like "am" for "morning". This is fine if you're texting, but he's not. There's a general lack of clarity and professionalism in his writing. He doesn't respect others in the conversation enough to give them his full attention. Get him to talk about himself, and he'll go on and on and run over any obstacle (proper grammar, good taste) but expect him to express a thought clearly and it won't happen.

defen 12y ago

1) No one cares about email grammar and punctuation because the marginal payoff of proofreading it is nil 2) The fact that this got published in BI may or may not be "paid advertising", but this was leaked as part of the Sony hack. Are you seriously claiming there is any chance that whole thing was masterminded by Spiegel as part of some elaborate long game defense of his reputation?

ececconi 12y ago

I don't think an internal email is representative of a person's writing skills. Take it for what it was meant to be, stream of consciousness communication to one other person. Something that he obviously spent more time on is below. I don't see a single run on sentence in that link. http://techcrunch.com/2014/12/17/snapchat-ceo-evan-spiegel-on-email-hacks-our-work-has-been-violated-and-exposed/ http://techcrunch.com/2014/12/17/snapchat-ceo-evan-spiegel-o...

billsossoon 12y ago

I was curious to see how you'd react to this, since Spiegel's success has been such a thorn in your side. So let's see, you opened with conspiracy theory nutjob (so maybe the real purpose of the Sony hack was to leak Spiegel's private email and bolster his personal brand??), and segued nicely into grammar nazi pedant (as if anybody, anywhere called the email impressive due to its punctuation). > First, he's a bad writer. He'd barely get a C in a freshman English class > Any lepers need cured? And you probably spent as more time writing your comment than Spiegel did writing his email. > Given that a 40-year-old CEO who wrote an email like that would (and rightfully) be considered somewhat off-the-ball No. Maybe all the 40-year-old CEOs who privately email you write exceptionally well, but that hasn't been my experience at all.

ohsnapman 12y ago
michaelochurch is many things, but I don't have any doubts in my mind that one of his talents is writing a lot, and writing it really fast. http://michaelochurch.wordpress.com/ http://michaelochurch.wordpress.com/
michaelochurch 12y ago
I was curious to see how you'd react to this, since Spiegel's success has been such a thorn in your side. I don't care about him, personally. He's boring. I care about frat boys being funded at the expense of people with actual ideas. I care about a generation of technologists that has been sold out because a bunch of smooth-operator, manipulative invaders have come in and outcompeted true technologists for funding and coverage, and the VCs have let it happen. If they were worth their millions per year, they simply wouldn't. If they could actually spot talent sufficiently well to justify their obscene salaries, they wouldn't be funding frat boys. I react strongly because this nonsense is very bad for the world. If Evan Spiegel wasn't part of something that's setting technology back by decades, I wouldn't give a rat's ass about him or his billions either way. So let's see, you opened with conspiracy theory nutjob No, you misunderstand. Obviously, he didn't intend for the Sony hack to happen. My contention is that, after the hack happened, he got quickly to work on figuring out how to use it best to bolster his reputation. An effective sociopath doesn't expect to control the world, because that's impossible, but only to exploit events as they come for maximal personal benefit. Clearly, Spiegel had nothing to do with the Sony hack. I'm arguing that his PR apparatus engaged shortly afterward. Given that Snapchat Beliebers (employees?) have come out of the woodwork to downvote me into oblivion, it's not that far fetched. His PR team (which may include the whole company) clearly managed to find my posts on a Wednesday afternoon. This means that they respond quickly to events large and small... and what I say on Hacker News is clearly less newsworthy than the Sony hack. And you probably spent as more time writing your comment than Spiegel did writing his email. I see what you're trying to say, and it doesn't work. Emails to investors, because your employees' livelihoods depend on them, deserve more time than Hacker News posts. Writing them quickly, when not well, isn't something to be bragged about. Granted, he's probably going for neoteny to some extent, and I'm sure he uses uptalk when interacting with investors, but even still... he should learn to communicate clearly and professionally.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

nilkn 12y ago

Although I agree with you that this was not a well-written email at all, I've personally found it to be quite common for people in Spiegel's position to write surprisingly badly for business communication. My first boss out of college, for instance, was a multi-millionaire whose general writing style was full of run-ons and countless "fuck"s. It stood out to me quite a bit, but it was obvious that when writing really mattered he was capable of producing perfect grammar, as if it were out of a textbook. I don't like Spiegel either, but I wouldn't take this as truly representative of his writing ability. I think this phenomenon occurs due to a combination of (1) there's a point in the chain of power after which it's more cost efficient to just get the email written and sent than to worry about its composition; and (2) when you're at the top you don't have nearly as many people whom you must impress.