5 ms·

> Educators get poor pay, somewhat decent benefits, and an ok pension I hear this relatively frequently (my wife is a teacher and so are many of our friends),

by vkjv 12y ago

> Educators get poor pay, somewhat decent benefits, and an ok pension I hear this relatively frequently (my wife is a teacher and so are many of our friends), but I disagree. I think saying it is "poor" depends on what you compare it against. The median earnings for a bachelors degree in the US is about $58k. In my county in MD, a teacher 10 years into their career makes $50k. Although, at this point teachers are required to get a masters.The masters scale goes all the way to $82k at 30 years. IMHO, the pay is fairly well in line with the norm. If count the benefits and pension, which are better than the norm, then you could argue it is quite good.

Jtsummers 12y ago
Starting pay for teachers by state, averaged (varies district to district) [0]. DC (admittedly, not actually a state, but a separate entity so should be counted here) is the highest at $51,539. The rest are mostly well below that mark. Since pay for teachers is primarily time and not merit based, I searched for a few specific examples. In the state of GA you can find what an individual is paid by the state if you know their name. I found a friend with 9 or 10 years experience who's only making $41k (no masters degree). Another friend, same job and county, making some $47k with about 15 years of experience. Same county, elementary school teacher with 1 or 2 years experience made $30k. I've run out of teachers I know in that district. This is, for this county, "good" pay. This is not, for the level of responsibility and time commitment required of them, good pay. They're expected to maintain their certifications on their own time. They're expected to remain current on the field they teach on their own time. They're expected to finish their masters degree on their own time and dime. All with less than $50k income and having families. $82k for a professional after 30 years with a masters degree is not "good pay". It's ok pay. It's certainly enough to keep them out of debt, I'd hope, but it's not going to make up for the 12+ hour workdays they'll have spent most of their adult life dealing with. And it takes 30 years to get to that point in your state. Do they get tuition assistance for that masters degree? What's the average cost and how much of that pay raise is actually spent dealing with the debt incurred in paying for the degree? [0] http://www.nea.org/home/2012-2013-average-starting-teacher-salary.html http://www.nea.org/home/2012-2013-average-starting-teacher-s... EDIT: The teachers I looked up teach in the same district so they're getting the same locality adjustments so it's an apples-to-apples comparison. Going one county north results in boosted pay, but it's simultaneously a wealthier county and scarier (violent crime in schools) county.
- xrange 12y ago
  Another fact that many commenters on this thread have overlooked is that U.S. schools operate about 175 days per year (compare that to 240 days for 52 weeks minus 10 holidays minus 10 vacation days). http://nces.ed.gov/surveys/sass/tables/sass0708_035_s1s.asp http://nces.ed.gov/surveys/sass/tables/sass0708_035_s1s.asp
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
    - learc83 12y ago
      Teachers still only work 190 days a year in most states. 50 days less than the 240 most other professions work. And according to this survey [1]. Teachers work fewer hours per week than other professionals when they do work (less than 40 hours per week on average). [1]. http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2008/03/art4full.pdf http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2008/03/art4full.pdf
- learc83 12y ago
  >it's not going to make up for the 12+ hour workdays they'll have spent most of their adult life dealing with. I know several teachers and I don't know a single one, (except for coaches who get paid to work longer), that works anywhere near 12 hour days on average--not even close. A quick google search backs me up. This study by the BLS shows that on average they work around 40 hours per week when they work (this includes time working at home). [1] Furthermore, teachers only work 190 days out of the year, so they end up working far less on average than other professionals. [1] http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2008/03/art4full.pdf http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2008/03/art4full.pdf
jack-r-abbit 12y ago
But over the years, teachers have been expected to supply more and more of their class materials at their own expense. I'm not saying that puts them at "fast food" level wages... but it does need to be taken into account when we talk about how much teachers make. They spend a non-trivial amount of their income to support their job.

by vkjv 12y ago

Jtsummers 12y ago

Starting pay for teachers by state, averaged (varies district to district) [0]. DC (admittedly, not actually a state, but a separate entity so should be counted here) is the highest at $51,539. The rest are mostly well below that mark. Since pay for teachers is primarily time and not merit based, I searched for a few specific examples. In the state of GA you can find what an individual is paid by the state if you know their name. I found a friend with 9 or 10 years experience who's only making $41k (no masters degree). Another friend, same job and county, making some $47k with about 15 years of experience. Same county, elementary school teacher with 1 or 2 years experience made $30k. I've run out of teachers I know in that district. This is, for this county, "good" pay. This is not, for the level of responsibility and time commitment required of them, good pay. They're expected to maintain their certifications on their own time. They're expected to remain current on the field they teach on their own time. They're expected to finish their masters degree on their own time and dime. All with less than $50k income and having families. $82k for a professional after 30 years with a masters degree is not "good pay". It's ok pay. It's certainly enough to keep them out of debt, I'd hope, but it's not going to make up for the 12+ hour workdays they'll have spent most of their adult life dealing with. And it takes 30 years to get to that point in your state. Do they get tuition assistance for that masters degree? What's the average cost and how much of that pay raise is actually spent dealing with the debt incurred in paying for the degree? [0] http://www.nea.org/home/2012-2013-average-starting-teacher-salary.html http://www.nea.org/home/2012-2013-average-starting-teacher-s... EDIT: The teachers I looked up teach in the same district so they're getting the same locality adjustments so it's an apples-to-apples comparison. Going one county north results in boosted pay, but it's simultaneously a wealthier county and scarier (violent crime in schools) county.

xrange 12y ago
Another fact that many commenters on this thread have overlooked is that U.S. schools operate about 175 days per year (compare that to 240 days for 52 weeks minus 10 holidays minus 10 vacation days). http://nces.ed.gov/surveys/sass/tables/sass0708_035_s1s.asp http://nces.ed.gov/surveys/sass/tables/sass0708_035_s1s.asp
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
  - learc83 12y ago
    Teachers still only work 190 days a year in most states. 50 days less than the 240 most other professions work. And according to this survey [1]. Teachers work fewer hours per week than other professionals when they do work (less than 40 hours per week on average). [1]. http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2008/03/art4full.pdf http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2008/03/art4full.pdf
learc83 12y ago
>it's not going to make up for the 12+ hour workdays they'll have spent most of their adult life dealing with. I know several teachers and I don't know a single one, (except for coaches who get paid to work longer), that works anywhere near 12 hour days on average--not even close. A quick google search backs me up. This study by the BLS shows that on average they work around 40 hours per week when they work (this includes time working at home). [1] Furthermore, teachers only work 190 days out of the year, so they end up working far less on average than other professionals. [1] http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2008/03/art4full.pdf http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2008/03/art4full.pdf

jack-r-abbit 12y ago

But over the years, teachers have been expected to supply more and more of their class materials at their own expense. I'm not saying that puts them at "fast food" level wages... but it does need to be taken into account when we talk about how much teachers make. They spend a non-trivial amount of their income to support their job.