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One legitimate argument against helium drives is they contribute to the depletion of the relatively scarce helium supply. http://www.boston.com/news/science/ar

by dsl 12y ago

One legitimate argument against helium drives is they contribute to the depletion of the relatively scarce helium supply. http://www.boston.com/news/science/articles/2010/10/17/scientists_warn_worlds_supply_of_helium_close_to_depletion/ http://www.boston.com/news/science/articles/2010/10/17/scien...

Smegger 12y ago
Helium wasted in hard drives though pale in comparison to that used in party balloons.
ghshephard 12y ago
That article reads a lot like "Peak Oil" concerns. There is a lot of Helium available - [1] The global reserves of helium are known to be approximately 41 billion cubic meters. Most of them lie in Qatar, Algeria, the USA and Russia. Annual global production of helium is about 175 million cubic meters, and the USA remains the largest producer. " Regardless, this is something the market can correct for very, very easily. As helium supply becomes more scarce, the price will go up, resulting in greater supply. Most of it comes from natural gas, and is so cheap [2] it's not worth capturing. Oil trades for around $100/barrel. Helium trades at $100 for a thousand cubic feet (albeit in gas form) Some of the problems with Helium is that Physics experiments use a LOT, and previously was so cheap that it wasn't worth trying to conserve. That's changing - [3] A recycling system can recapture about $12,000/year of lost helium for a single scientist. From reading articles - apparently the problems isn't so much that the cost of helium is increasing - but that it's been so cheap because of the US Natural Reserves making it completely non-competitive to capture - they are basically giving the stuff away for next to nothing. And, putting it in a $100+ Hard Drive that will last a half decade is a FAR better use than putting 10x that much in a $0.50/balloon that will last 30 minutes. (Or Macy's parade which uses 400,000 cubic feet of helium) In fact, it may turn out to be the best conceivable use of Helium in terms of a value per m^3 equation. [1] http://www.gazprominfo.com/articles/helium/ http://www.gazprominfo.com/articles/helium/ [2] http://finance.yahoo.com/news/airgas-increase-prices-helium-20-164550580.html http://finance.yahoo.com/news/airgas-increase-prices-helium-... And on Friday, the bureau announced that it was raising the price for a thousand cubic feet for crude helium from $84 to $95 [3] http://www.nature.com/news/united-states-extends-life-of-helium-reserve-1.13819 http://www.nature.com/news/united-states-extends-life-of-hel...
- Cthulhu_ 12y ago
  Thanks for that post - helium scarcity is a load of FUD IMO, since if it becomes scarce and thus more expensive, companies will jump into the market and start producing it. Similar to the production of hydrogen for the car market. Rare earth materials are a much bigger issue, since those are much harder to chemically manufacture and aren't a by-product of anything (except recycling)
  - ghshephard 12y ago
    Even the rare earths (which, ironically, are relatively plentiful in the earth's crust [1], enjoy the same market-response behavior. As soon as China tried to flex a bit of muscle in it's monopoly position, a bunch of other suppliers jumped into the market (and, industrial users of rare-earths found alternative resources for their gadgets) http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2013/12/18/chinese-rare-earth-metals-surprise-free-markets-actually-work/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2013/12/18/chinese-r... [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rare_earth_element http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rare_earth_element
  - rsynnott 12y ago
    > and start producing it. How? Through transmutation? I can't see that being economically viable. Helium is a noble gas (generally does not combine into molecules) and tends to leave Earth's atmosphere when released. There's no viable way to produce more of it.
    - zo1 12y ago
      >"There's no viable way to produce more of it." If you throw enough money at a problem, it starts becoming viable/feasible. Have a look at the Diamond production industry for comparison: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_diamond http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_diamond Note, don't let the "synthetic" part fool you into thinking they're not real diamonds. They are real in every imaginable way except they're not "a girl's best friend".
      - 12y ago

by dsl 12y ago

Smegger 12y ago

Helium wasted in hard drives though pale in comparison to that used in party balloons.

ghshephard 12y ago

That article reads a lot like "Peak Oil" concerns. There is a lot of Helium available - [1] The global reserves of helium are known to be approximately 41 billion cubic meters. Most of them lie in Qatar, Algeria, the USA and Russia. Annual global production of helium is about 175 million cubic meters, and the USA remains the largest producer. " Regardless, this is something the market can correct for very, very easily. As helium supply becomes more scarce, the price will go up, resulting in greater supply. Most of it comes from natural gas, and is so cheap [2] it's not worth capturing. Oil trades for around $100/barrel. Helium trades at $100 for a thousand cubic feet (albeit in gas form) Some of the problems with Helium is that Physics experiments use a LOT, and previously was so cheap that it wasn't worth trying to conserve. That's changing - [3] A recycling system can recapture about $12,000/year of lost helium for a single scientist. From reading articles - apparently the problems isn't so much that the cost of helium is increasing - but that it's been so cheap because of the US Natural Reserves making it completely non-competitive to capture - they are basically giving the stuff away for next to nothing. And, putting it in a $100+ Hard Drive that will last a half decade is a FAR better use than putting 10x that much in a $0.50/balloon that will last 30 minutes. (Or Macy's parade which uses 400,000 cubic feet of helium) In fact, it may turn out to be the best conceivable use of Helium in terms of a value per m^3 equation. [1] http://www.gazprominfo.com/articles/helium/ http://www.gazprominfo.com/articles/helium/ [2] http://finance.yahoo.com/news/airgas-increase-prices-helium-20-164550580.html http://finance.yahoo.com/news/airgas-increase-prices-helium-... And on Friday, the bureau announced that it was raising the price for a thousand cubic feet for crude helium from $84 to $95 [3] http://www.nature.com/news/united-states-extends-life-of-helium-reserve-1.13819 http://www.nature.com/news/united-states-extends-life-of-hel...

Cthulhu_ 12y ago
Thanks for that post - helium scarcity is a load of FUD IMO, since if it becomes scarce and thus more expensive, companies will jump into the market and start producing it. Similar to the production of hydrogen for the car market. Rare earth materials are a much bigger issue, since those are much harder to chemically manufacture and aren't a by-product of anything (except recycling)
- ghshephard 12y ago
  Even the rare earths (which, ironically, are relatively plentiful in the earth's crust [1], enjoy the same market-response behavior. As soon as China tried to flex a bit of muscle in it's monopoly position, a bunch of other suppliers jumped into the market (and, industrial users of rare-earths found alternative resources for their gadgets) http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2013/12/18/chinese-rare-earth-metals-surprise-free-markets-actually-work/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2013/12/18/chinese-r... [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rare_earth_element http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rare_earth_element
- rsynnott 12y ago
  > and start producing it. How? Through transmutation? I can't see that being economically viable. Helium is a noble gas (generally does not combine into molecules) and tends to leave Earth's atmosphere when released. There's no viable way to produce more of it.
  - zo1 12y ago
    >"There's no viable way to produce more of it." If you throw enough money at a problem, it starts becoming viable/feasible. Have a look at the Diamond production industry for comparison: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_diamond http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_diamond Note, don't let the "synthetic" part fool you into thinking they're not real diamonds. They are real in every imaginable way except they're not "a girl's best friend".
    - 12y ago