4 ms·

Maybe Bellard is reading these comments. I made a very unpopular remark about his use of Lena.jpg and while I believe it's mostly coincidence, he used an images

Maybe Bellard is reading these comments. I made a very unpopular remark about his use of Lena.jpg and while I believe it's mostly coincidence, he used an imageset without Lena.jpg. If you're reading, Bellard, hi!

akie 12y ago
Ignore the haters - I read your comment and upvoted it. It is everyday sexism and role-confirming behavior, and it is off-putting to women and making them feel unwelcome. But I think people are not aware of it and mean no harm, which is why it's good you pointed it out. I do think some people can only relate to the argument when you propose to replace Lena with a seductively pretty half-naked (gay?) man, though.
- Houshalter 12y ago
  Some people use the Fabio test image: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-jUHXZ0jW4Lc/T1t3W0ex2BI/AAAAAAAAFeY/7TY0cTty1og/s400/Fabio.jpg http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-jUHXZ0jW4Lc/T1t3W0ex2BI/AAAAAAAAFe... I don't see the problem with using either one and think the controversy is ridiculous.
- polshaw 12y ago
  More relevantly, it is a good test image. It's a woman with a bare shoulder! Nobody would have a problem with it if it were an attractive man in that image instead (sexuality irrelevant).
  - akie 12y ago
    Ok, so would you be comfortable if this http://imgur.com/coB85tW http://imgur.com/coB85tW was the standard test image then?
    - polshaw 12y ago
      Yes. Although there is a lot more going on in the original that justifies its use as a test image; varying levels of subtlety of detail (the two parts of the top of the hat, DoF, and especially the feathers or whatever you call it) as well as the human in it. original being referenced: http://bellard.org/bpg/lena.html http://bellard.org/bpg/lena.html
    - taternuts 12y ago
      I can't imagine many people would be uncomfortable with that
- hashmymustache 12y ago
  I'm trying to figure out why it's inherently sexist. The woman in the photo posed, doesn't object to its use, gave a presentation about herself at an imaging conference, and had a career helping handicapped people work on computers. Image compression algorithm's are tested against faces since that's what we take the most pictures of. This took hold for whatever reason. The reflexive hate for anything "role-confirming" is sexist in denying legitimacy to any man/woman in that role. Fine change it to a half-naked guy. I don't know why if he's gay it'd make a difference, but sure.
  - frontsideair 12y ago
    I'll try to answer to this as best as I can, since I'm new to this feminism thing there's bound to be stuff that I'll miss. Well first of all it's very nice of her approving the use of image and Playboy too for not going after their rights. But I think it's far fetched to see her approval as a positive message. There are women out there contributing to the objectification of women too, for whatever reason they have. (One weird side of this is people think women are shielded from criticism of their own objectification, but it's a delicate matter to say the least. One has the right to objectify themselves so it's hard to say something without getting in the way of their right to self express.) There are more than one side to this issue; but it's not about her consent, it's about how it might be contributing to boys club image of tech. It's easy to see that we have a problem of the lack of women in tech. I find this very depressing since they're able as much as men are and it looks wasteful to dismiss half the population. I think we're getting better each day, but it does not happen magically. People fight for it and will keep fighting until there's no discrimination based on sex. I accept that Lena image is one of the minor issues, but I still see this as one of the factors that drives women away. This boys club image of tech gives the implicit message that women are not wanted here. I know there's no nudity in the image and one needs to research to find its origins in Playboy so it seems unlikely to come across it. But the real reason here is if we're willing to combat sexism, it will give women comfort that we're willing to change tradition to be more welcoming. I believe actions speak louder than words, and if the reason to keep the tradition is not all that important, we should do it. (I also don't think it's fair to compare it to an image of a naked guy, since it's unlikely to drive boys away from tech. It's not just naked guy vs. naked girl, the context and the message makes a world of difference.)
notlisted 12y ago
Hmmm. While I understand you may don't like the source (for the young'ns: Playboy), it's a standard image that has been used to compare compression methods for 40+ years, so it serves a specific purpose.
- Luc 12y ago
  I can't really think of any benefit outweighing the negative message, unless you'd want to compare to historic images or some other convoluted scenario.
- frontsideair 12y ago
  I understand your point, but I believe some tradition must be put to rest at some point as we grow wiser. On the other hand, Wikipedia says the Lena image was remastered in 2013 so it may lose its historical significance if the remastered version is used from now on. (It's one of those moments where making something better actually makes it worse.)
0x09 12y ago
The author of this comparison is a HN user, but he isn't Fabrice Bellard. edit: https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=xooyoozoo https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=xooyoozoo
- frontsideair 12y ago
  Oops, my bad for not checking. Thanks for clarification!

akie 12y ago

Ignore the haters - I read your comment and upvoted it. It is everyday sexism and role-confirming behavior, and it is off-putting to women and making them feel unwelcome. But I think people are not aware of it and mean no harm, which is why it's good you pointed it out. I do think some people can only relate to the argument when you propose to replace Lena with a seductively pretty half-naked (gay?) man, though.

Houshalter 12y ago
Some people use the Fabio test image: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-jUHXZ0jW4Lc/T1t3W0ex2BI/AAAAAAAAFeY/7TY0cTty1og/s400/Fabio.jpg http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-jUHXZ0jW4Lc/T1t3W0ex2BI/AAAAAAAAFe... I don't see the problem with using either one and think the controversy is ridiculous.
polshaw 12y ago
More relevantly, it is a good test image. It's a woman with a bare shoulder! Nobody would have a problem with it if it were an attractive man in that image instead (sexuality irrelevant).
- akie 12y ago
  Ok, so would you be comfortable if this http://imgur.com/coB85tW http://imgur.com/coB85tW was the standard test image then?
  - polshaw 12y ago
    Yes. Although there is a lot more going on in the original that justifies its use as a test image; varying levels of subtlety of detail (the two parts of the top of the hat, DoF, and especially the feathers or whatever you call it) as well as the human in it. original being referenced: http://bellard.org/bpg/lena.html http://bellard.org/bpg/lena.html
  - taternuts 12y ago
    I can't imagine many people would be uncomfortable with that
hashmymustache 12y ago
I'm trying to figure out why it's inherently sexist. The woman in the photo posed, doesn't object to its use, gave a presentation about herself at an imaging conference, and had a career helping handicapped people work on computers. Image compression algorithm's are tested against faces since that's what we take the most pictures of. This took hold for whatever reason. The reflexive hate for anything "role-confirming" is sexist in denying legitimacy to any man/woman in that role. Fine change it to a half-naked guy. I don't know why if he's gay it'd make a difference, but sure.
- frontsideair 12y ago
  I'll try to answer to this as best as I can, since I'm new to this feminism thing there's bound to be stuff that I'll miss. Well first of all it's very nice of her approving the use of image and Playboy too for not going after their rights. But I think it's far fetched to see her approval as a positive message. There are women out there contributing to the objectification of women too, for whatever reason they have. (One weird side of this is people think women are shielded from criticism of their own objectification, but it's a delicate matter to say the least. One has the right to objectify themselves so it's hard to say something without getting in the way of their right to self express.) There are more than one side to this issue; but it's not about her consent, it's about how it might be contributing to boys club image of tech. It's easy to see that we have a problem of the lack of women in tech. I find this very depressing since they're able as much as men are and it looks wasteful to dismiss half the population. I think we're getting better each day, but it does not happen magically. People fight for it and will keep fighting until there's no discrimination based on sex. I accept that Lena image is one of the minor issues, but I still see this as one of the factors that drives women away. This boys club image of tech gives the implicit message that women are not wanted here. I know there's no nudity in the image and one needs to research to find its origins in Playboy so it seems unlikely to come across it. But the real reason here is if we're willing to combat sexism, it will give women comfort that we're willing to change tradition to be more welcoming. I believe actions speak louder than words, and if the reason to keep the tradition is not all that important, we should do it. (I also don't think it's fair to compare it to an image of a naked guy, since it's unlikely to drive boys away from tech. It's not just naked guy vs. naked girl, the context and the message makes a world of difference.)

notlisted 12y ago

Hmmm. While I understand you may don't like the source (for the young'ns: Playboy), it's a standard image that has been used to compare compression methods for 40+ years, so it serves a specific purpose.

Luc 12y ago
I can't really think of any benefit outweighing the negative message, unless you'd want to compare to historic images or some other convoluted scenario.
frontsideair 12y ago
I understand your point, but I believe some tradition must be put to rest at some point as we grow wiser. On the other hand, Wikipedia says the Lena image was remastered in 2013 so it may lose its historical significance if the remastered version is used from now on. (It's one of those moments where making something better actually makes it worse.)

0x09 12y ago

The author of this comparison is a HN user, but he isn't Fabrice Bellard. edit: https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=xooyoozoo https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=xooyoozoo

frontsideair 12y ago
Oops, my bad for not checking. Thanks for clarification!