4 ms·

It's so cool to see the eradication of a disease. To live through it. You read about such things in history books, but actually being alive while it happens i

It's so cool to see the eradication of a disease. To live through it. You read about such things in history books, but actually being alive while it happens is pretty sweet. Especially such an awful one like polio.

philwelch 12y ago
They'll have to eradicate it in Pakistan and Afghanistan first, and around there people don't really trust foreigners who come around promising free polio vaccines because that was the CIA's cover when they came looking for Bin Laden.
- danieltillett 12y ago
  Yep. The stupidity involved in this decision is breathtaking.
  - barry-cotter 12y ago
    Not stupid, evil. Those people are evil. Everyone who signed off on that deception should be tried for crimes against humanity.
    - danieltillett 12y ago
      I agree the people who signed off on this decision should be brought to trial, but I am not to sure that they intended the outcome that occurred. This is still no excuse for a decision that will kill 10,000s of innocent children.
      - npizzolato 12y ago
        We prosecute people for negligence for way less impactful decisions. Whoever signed off on that decision either weighed the consequences of their actions and decided that was worth it or they were so incompetent that they didn't even think about it. Considering they're responsible for one of the premiere spy networks on the planet, I'm going to guess they're pretty intelligent. So that leaves one option.
        danieltillett 12y ago
        It is hard to know without a full trial. This is the one thing that should happen, but if torture can be swept under the rug with nobody being held responsible I am not too hopeful :(
    - gadders 12y ago
      The Taliban/Al Qaeda are evil, not the CIA.
      - lmm 12y ago
        Why not both?
        gadders 12y ago
        A fair point. I'm sure they have done some evil stuff. But then I read this: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-30491435 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-30491435
        mikeash 12y ago
        Hundreds of children dead in a school attack versus millions dead because trust in vaccines is destroyed. I don't see the "but."
      - deleted 12y ago
        [deleted]
      - ngcazz 12y ago
        No one is exempt from responsibility.
      - igravious 12y ago
        Oh, if only things were so black and white what an uncomplicated world we'd be living in. Unfortunately the reality you describe is not the reality we live in.
        gadders 12y ago
        True enough, but I'm not fully on board with moral relativism either. "The West" (if not the CIA) is on the side of good, and AQ/The Taliban/ISIS obviously is not.
        12y ago
- snowwrestler 12y ago
  Those areas did not trust foreigners with needles to begin with. The CIA vaccination gambit was undeniably stupid, but it wasn't a root cause, it made a bad problem worse. The root cause is that those are areas with very high levels of tribal paranoia, religious fundamentalism, and outright violence.
- tanzam75 12y ago
  There was a polio outbreak in China in 2011 that was traced back to Pakistan. Prior to that outbreak, the last case of polio in China had been in 1999. The outbreak was contained after 21 confirmed infections plus another 23 suspected. The Chinese public health system mobilized 1000 health workers, spent $26 million, and vaccinated 44 million people. If we can't get rid of polio in Pakistan and Afghanistan, then this will just keep happening. NEJM editorial: http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMe1311591 http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMe1311591
  - danieltillett 12y ago
    This will keep happening around the world. We came so close to eradicating polio for good and to see it all thrown away is heartbreaking.
- tokenadult 12y ago
  They'll have to eradicate it in Pakistan and Afghanistan first, and around there people don't really trust foreigners The same people in those same places don't trust children who go to high school, and are willing to kill the children in large numbers.[1] The simple fact of the matter is that the sole remaining countries in the world with large numbers of cases of endemic polio were mostly countries with backwardness-promoting Islamist movements even long before anyone knew that Bin Laden was hiding out in the same city of Pakistan where the Pakistan Military Academy is located. [1] "Over 120 Pakistanis, mostly children, killed in Taliban high school attack" (Reuters) http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/12/16/us-pakistan-school-idUSKBN0JU0JO20141216 http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/12/16/us-pakistan-school...

philwelch 12y ago

They'll have to eradicate it in Pakistan and Afghanistan first, and around there people don't really trust foreigners who come around promising free polio vaccines because that was the CIA's cover when they came looking for Bin Laden.

danieltillett 12y ago
Yep. The stupidity involved in this decision is breathtaking.
- barry-cotter 12y ago
  Not stupid, evil. Those people are evil. Everyone who signed off on that deception should be tried for crimes against humanity.
  - danieltillett 12y ago
    I agree the people who signed off on this decision should be brought to trial, but I am not to sure that they intended the outcome that occurred. This is still no excuse for a decision that will kill 10,000s of innocent children.
    - npizzolato 12y ago
      We prosecute people for negligence for way less impactful decisions. Whoever signed off on that decision either weighed the consequences of their actions and decided that was worth it or they were so incompetent that they didn't even think about it. Considering they're responsible for one of the premiere spy networks on the planet, I'm going to guess they're pretty intelligent. So that leaves one option.
      - danieltillett 12y ago
        It is hard to know without a full trial. This is the one thing that should happen, but if torture can be swept under the rug with nobody being held responsible I am not too hopeful :(
  - gadders 12y ago
    The Taliban/Al Qaeda are evil, not the CIA.
    - lmm 12y ago
      Why not both?
      - gadders 12y ago
        A fair point. I'm sure they have done some evil stuff. But then I read this: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-30491435 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-30491435
        mikeash 12y ago
        Hundreds of children dead in a school attack versus millions dead because trust in vaccines is destroyed. I don't see the "but."
    - deleted 12y ago
      [deleted]
    - ngcazz 12y ago
      No one is exempt from responsibility.
    - igravious 12y ago
      Oh, if only things were so black and white what an uncomplicated world we'd be living in. Unfortunately the reality you describe is not the reality we live in.
      - gadders 12y ago
        True enough, but I'm not fully on board with moral relativism either. "The West" (if not the CIA) is on the side of good, and AQ/The Taliban/ISIS obviously is not.
        12y ago
snowwrestler 12y ago
Those areas did not trust foreigners with needles to begin with. The CIA vaccination gambit was undeniably stupid, but it wasn't a root cause, it made a bad problem worse. The root cause is that those are areas with very high levels of tribal paranoia, religious fundamentalism, and outright violence.
tanzam75 12y ago
There was a polio outbreak in China in 2011 that was traced back to Pakistan. Prior to that outbreak, the last case of polio in China had been in 1999. The outbreak was contained after 21 confirmed infections plus another 23 suspected. The Chinese public health system mobilized 1000 health workers, spent $26 million, and vaccinated 44 million people. If we can't get rid of polio in Pakistan and Afghanistan, then this will just keep happening. NEJM editorial: http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMe1311591 http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMe1311591
- danieltillett 12y ago
  This will keep happening around the world. We came so close to eradicating polio for good and to see it all thrown away is heartbreaking.
tokenadult 12y ago
They'll have to eradicate it in Pakistan and Afghanistan first, and around there people don't really trust foreigners The same people in those same places don't trust children who go to high school, and are willing to kill the children in large numbers.[1] The simple fact of the matter is that the sole remaining countries in the world with large numbers of cases of endemic polio were mostly countries with backwardness-promoting Islamist movements even long before anyone knew that Bin Laden was hiding out in the same city of Pakistan where the Pakistan Military Academy is located. [1] "Over 120 Pakistanis, mostly children, killed in Taliban high school attack" (Reuters) http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/12/16/us-pakistan-school-idUSKBN0JU0JO20141216 http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/12/16/us-pakistan-school...