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In the states, the more I deal with cellular companies and airlines, the more I hate them. It's not just me: it's a common opinion. One prominent business maga

In the states, the more I deal with cellular companies and airlines, the more I hate them. It's not just me: it's a common opinion. One prominent business magazine had a cover a few years back titled something like "The companies we all hate" Consumers like to purchase things in atomic units and simple terms. If I go to the grocery store, there's a bushel of apples. The sign says "Granny Smith apples: $1" I can confidently pick up an apple, walk to the register, and expect to pay a dollar. The grocery store can advertise their wares and prices in the paper or online and I can plan on going to the store and making the same exchange. People like being able to predict how much of one thing they have to trade for an amount of something else. When lots of competitors do this in a market that anybody can participate in, it's good for everybody. But when I buy an airline ticket? The rules are many times so byzantine that entire cottage industries have sprung up in an effort to capitalize on them. How much does it cost to fly coast-to-coast? Beats the heck out of me. There is no answer. Could I pick up a job where I had to fly ten times from point A to point B with a few day's notice and be able to include travel costs in the price? No, not unless I were to charge up to 17 times the cheapest rate. Complex pricing systems may be great for the airline, but they're damaging to the free and open market. Instead of using rapidly-changing yield management systems, we'd all be better off if they just used an cross-carrier auction with transferable tickets. Let downstream providers handle liquidity. I doubt this will happen, and instead there will be more penny-pinching, crazy rates, and unhappy customers.

markdown 12y ago
This doesn't take away from your point at all, but I just wanted to point out that: > I can confidently pick up an apple, walk to the register, and expect to pay a dollar. This is true in most of the world, but not in the US, where you don't know what you're paying until you reach the checkout counter.
- thaumasiotes 12y ago
  Well, you can weigh the apple yourself on the scales that occur all throughout the produce section... but yeah, I'd be surprised to see a flat rate for fruit by species no matter the size. Fruit is sold by weight, not count, in China too.
  - Someone1234 12y ago
    That wasn't their point. In most of the world if a product's price tag says X then you pay exactly X at the register (e.g. £2 sandwich costs exactly £2 in cash, you hand then exactly £2 and leave). In the US that is not the case. Almost everything has a "hidden fee." You go buy a $2 sandwich but pay $2 + 6% ($2.12), if you get food in a restaurant you pay $price + 15-20%, an advertised $30/month cell phone plan is actually $45 after "taxes and fees," and so on... Within Europe/EU in particular these types of hidden fees are actively combatted. Just within the last few years a few airlines (e.g. Easyjet) got into trouble for charging both a credit card or debit card fee (approx. £3-5) which wasn't reasonably avoidable and wasn't mentioned in their adverts. The US in general is rather consumer hostile on the grounds of "business freedom."
    - thaumasiotes 12y ago
      Try to buy an apple in California and see whether the sales tax was included in the price ;) I have a two-part theory as to the advertising of prices exclusive of sales tax (which, again, doesn't apply to the apple example, for those HN readers who live in Silicon Valley); it goes like this: 1. Companies that sell products out of more than one store would like to use the same advertising everywhere, instead of making one ad per sales tax region they're present in. 2. This causes everyone to have to advertise prices the same way. Actually, now I'm curious what the tax scheme was when you ordered something out of the Sears catalog. Most of your examples have something going for them, but this one > an advertised $30/month cell phone plan is actually $45 after "taxes and fees," is something I've never heard of. All of my US cell phone plans advertised the exact price they charged.
      - Someone1234 12y ago
        > is something I've never heard of. All of my US cell phone plans advertised the exact price they charged. Like hell they are. Here's a 1:1 copy/paste from a recent AT&T bill (only modified for formatting, and <Local> for privacy reasons): Surcharges & Fees Administrative Fee $0.61 Computer Aided Dispatch Surcharge $0.06 Federal Universal Service Charge $0.82 Municipal License Surcharge $0.59 Regulatory Cost Recovery Charge $0.66 Relay Service Device Fund Surcharge $0.02 <Local> Universal Service $0.10 Total Surcharges & Fees $2.86 And: Government Fees & Taxes City District Sales Tax - Telecom $0.08 City Sales Tax - Telecom $0.18 County Sales Tax - Telecom $0.05 Local Wireless 911 Surcharge $0.61 <Local> State Sales Tax - Telecom $0.81 Unified Statewide 911 Charge $0.09 Total Government Fees & Taxes $1.82 These are charged on top of their headline rates. Some of these are federal fees so aren't likely avoidable no matter where you happen to live.
- dllthomas 12y ago
  That varies from store to store. I know the fruit stand off Hwy 1 near Moss Landing usually has 7 (small) artichokes for a dollar and similar.
brandonmenc 12y ago
If the airlines adopted a simple, predictable pricing scheme, you likely wouldn't be able to afford it.

markdown 12y ago

This doesn't take away from your point at all, but I just wanted to point out that: > I can confidently pick up an apple, walk to the register, and expect to pay a dollar. This is true in most of the world, but not in the US, where you don't know what you're paying until you reach the checkout counter.

thaumasiotes 12y ago
Well, you can weigh the apple yourself on the scales that occur all throughout the produce section... but yeah, I'd be surprised to see a flat rate for fruit by species no matter the size. Fruit is sold by weight, not count, in China too.
- Someone1234 12y ago
  That wasn't their point. In most of the world if a product's price tag says X then you pay exactly X at the register (e.g. £2 sandwich costs exactly £2 in cash, you hand then exactly £2 and leave). In the US that is not the case. Almost everything has a "hidden fee." You go buy a $2 sandwich but pay $2 + 6% ($2.12), if you get food in a restaurant you pay $price + 15-20%, an advertised $30/month cell phone plan is actually $45 after "taxes and fees," and so on... Within Europe/EU in particular these types of hidden fees are actively combatted. Just within the last few years a few airlines (e.g. Easyjet) got into trouble for charging both a credit card or debit card fee (approx. £3-5) which wasn't reasonably avoidable and wasn't mentioned in their adverts. The US in general is rather consumer hostile on the grounds of "business freedom."
  - thaumasiotes 12y ago
    Try to buy an apple in California and see whether the sales tax was included in the price ;) I have a two-part theory as to the advertising of prices exclusive of sales tax (which, again, doesn't apply to the apple example, for those HN readers who live in Silicon Valley); it goes like this: 1. Companies that sell products out of more than one store would like to use the same advertising everywhere, instead of making one ad per sales tax region they're present in. 2. This causes everyone to have to advertise prices the same way. Actually, now I'm curious what the tax scheme was when you ordered something out of the Sears catalog. Most of your examples have something going for them, but this one > an advertised $30/month cell phone plan is actually $45 after "taxes and fees," is something I've never heard of. All of my US cell phone plans advertised the exact price they charged.
    - Someone1234 12y ago
      > is something I've never heard of. All of my US cell phone plans advertised the exact price they charged. Like hell they are. Here's a 1:1 copy/paste from a recent AT&T bill (only modified for formatting, and <Local> for privacy reasons): Surcharges & Fees Administrative Fee $0.61 Computer Aided Dispatch Surcharge $0.06 Federal Universal Service Charge $0.82 Municipal License Surcharge $0.59 Regulatory Cost Recovery Charge $0.66 Relay Service Device Fund Surcharge $0.02 <Local> Universal Service $0.10 Total Surcharges & Fees $2.86 And: Government Fees & Taxes City District Sales Tax - Telecom $0.08 City Sales Tax - Telecom $0.18 County Sales Tax - Telecom $0.05 Local Wireless 911 Surcharge $0.61 <Local> State Sales Tax - Telecom $0.81 Unified Statewide 911 Charge $0.09 Total Government Fees & Taxes $1.82 These are charged on top of their headline rates. Some of these are federal fees so aren't likely avoidable no matter where you happen to live.
dllthomas 12y ago
That varies from store to store. I know the fruit stand off Hwy 1 near Moss Landing usually has 7 (small) artichokes for a dollar and similar.

brandonmenc 12y ago

If the airlines adopted a simple, predictable pricing scheme, you likely wouldn't be able to afford it.