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Alcohol is far worse than Heroin or the other opiates. Nearly all the problems with opiates relate to having unknown quantities due to the lack of regulated pro

Alcohol is far worse than Heroin or the other opiates. Nearly all the problems with opiates relate to having unknown quantities due to the lack of regulated producers. The opiate side effect profile is rather tame, mainly constipation. (Apart from respiratory depression, and the unfortunate people that get nauseous.)

azernik 12y ago
There is one more issue with many opiates, which is actually inherent to the drugs and not to the regulatory/market context - the relatively quick gain and loss of tolerance, and the uncertainty this introduces as to the actual physiological effects even of a known dosage. This is why there are many opiate overdoses where the victim is starting to use after being sober for some time - they go back to the doses that were normal for them not so long ago, but their body chemistry has changed enough that those dosages are now dangerous. See for example http://www.bmj.com/content/326/7396/959 http://www.bmj.com/content/326/7396/959
- MichaelGG 12y ago
  Well that's still rather related to legal issues. If opiates didn't have legal issues, then the social stigma would drop and people wouldn't need to go on these binge rehabs. Also note that other very popular legal drugs require care when going on or off. Eg benzodiazepines can cause death if suddenly discontinued. SSRIs also require care when stopping. Yet these two groups are the most prescribed medications, ever.
  - azernik 12y ago
    Sure - and some opiates (including ones with dangers of addiction and overdose morphine) are themselves prescribed, carefully. But they're not safe on the same level that, say, marijuana or LSD are.
    - MichaelGG 12y ago
      Right I'm just objecting to classifying opiates as the evil hardcore drug, the personification of bad. Alcohol is far worse. In fact, opiates are one if the current post human steps we can take to a Culture-like humanity. Being able to turn off physical and emotional pain, on-demand? Until neuroscience gets us there, opiates are a good start.
vichu 12y ago
The most heinous thing about opiate overdoses is that there exists a drug (Naloxone/Narcan) that if administered in a comfortable window of time will completely negate the effects of the overdose and there are still states in the US that don't condone or approve of its use among drug addicts. Here's a link to a Vice documentary talking about it: http://www.vice.com/video/back-from-the-brink-heroins-antidote-333 http://www.vice.com/video/back-from-the-brink-heroins-antido...
- chinpokomon 12y ago
  I bet Naloxone/Narcan isn't available over the counter so it isn't as available as it should be. First I'm hearing of this.
  - girvo 12y ago
    It's available in Australia at the needle exchange. You do a 1 day course as a training session, and you're allowed to purchase it. $5 for three doses, which is pretty great.

azernik 12y ago

There is one more issue with many opiates, which is actually inherent to the drugs and not to the regulatory/market context - the relatively quick gain and loss of tolerance, and the uncertainty this introduces as to the actual physiological effects even of a known dosage. This is why there are many opiate overdoses where the victim is starting to use after being sober for some time - they go back to the doses that were normal for them not so long ago, but their body chemistry has changed enough that those dosages are now dangerous. See for example http://www.bmj.com/content/326/7396/959 http://www.bmj.com/content/326/7396/959

MichaelGG 12y ago
Well that's still rather related to legal issues. If opiates didn't have legal issues, then the social stigma would drop and people wouldn't need to go on these binge rehabs. Also note that other very popular legal drugs require care when going on or off. Eg benzodiazepines can cause death if suddenly discontinued. SSRIs also require care when stopping. Yet these two groups are the most prescribed medications, ever.
- azernik 12y ago
  Sure - and some opiates (including ones with dangers of addiction and overdose morphine) are themselves prescribed, carefully. But they're not safe on the same level that, say, marijuana or LSD are.
  - MichaelGG 12y ago
    Right I'm just objecting to classifying opiates as the evil hardcore drug, the personification of bad. Alcohol is far worse. In fact, opiates are one if the current post human steps we can take to a Culture-like humanity. Being able to turn off physical and emotional pain, on-demand? Until neuroscience gets us there, opiates are a good start.

vichu 12y ago

The most heinous thing about opiate overdoses is that there exists a drug (Naloxone/Narcan) that if administered in a comfortable window of time will completely negate the effects of the overdose and there are still states in the US that don't condone or approve of its use among drug addicts. Here's a link to a Vice documentary talking about it: http://www.vice.com/video/back-from-the-brink-heroins-antidote-333 http://www.vice.com/video/back-from-the-brink-heroins-antido...

chinpokomon 12y ago
I bet Naloxone/Narcan isn't available over the counter so it isn't as available as it should be. First I'm hearing of this.
- girvo 12y ago
  It's available in Australia at the needle exchange. You do a 1 day course as a training session, and you're allowed to purchase it. $5 for three doses, which is pretty great.