6 ms·

I doubt he will respond to you. It's a pretty classic tactic to request citation from someone you know isn't prepared to offer it in order to defuse an argument

by NovaS1X 12y ago

I doubt he will respond to you. It's a pretty classic tactic to request citation from someone you know isn't prepared to offer it in order to defuse an argument. He doesn't have to offer citation, he only has to stop his opponent from appearing knowledgeable. he doesn't need to be right, he only needs to make the other guy look wrong.

jsprogrammer 12y ago
Sockpuppets confirmed on HN.
ownagefool 12y ago
I've no doubt that people ask for citation in the manner suggested, but the gp had a resonable point. In the absense of evidence, it's better to assume what's going on is organic to online discussions. If you've been on the internet for the last 10 years, this is easy to believe. If not, just visit the phoronix fourms. You'll be astounded by the batshit insane folks.
- jschwartzi 12y ago
  I mainly just wanted to see an analysis of needless complexity which is organically injected into committee-based standards processes because it could inform my own work which depends so heavily on them. Additionally, when so much of software engineering involves dealing with multiple stakeholders, understanding how people can "concern-troll" a useless or damaging requirement into the process might allow me to diffuse such a situation in the future.
happyscrappy 12y ago
Many on HN would like to show up tptacek. The lack of response speaks to the lack of evidence.
diyorgasms 12y ago
Actually, Tptacek is one of the regular users here whom I most strongly suspect is acting as a sockpuppet for NSA interests, or perhaps his own company's interests dovetail with the US intelligence community's so well he is acting out of self-interest. It seems he makes an appearance in just about every thread where criticism of the US intelligence community is presented, and he seems to be staunchly in favor of everything the NSA has been doing. I don't want to make wanton accusations, as it is very possible he truly believes in that for which he argues. But since the Snowden revelations, Tptacek is the one user in whom the NSA has a staunch, unwavering defender.
- mindslight 12y ago
  IIRC, tptacek just has a more nuanced position wrt NSA spying. It just often comes across as towing the Party line. But that's certainly no reason to call him a sockpuppet. Frankly, if you think HN is pwned so hard that the highest-karma account is a sock puppet, why would you even bother? Maybe this whole board is just one giant programmatic timesink meant to waste your time and discourage you from doing something. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8745912 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8745912
  - dctoedt 12y ago
    > * Maybe this whole board is just one giant programmatic timesink meant to waste your time and discourage you from doing something.* As a kid I read a science-fiction short story to that effect --- a successful scientist discovers that he's being drawn into more and more university-committee work, etc., and thus has less and less time for his real work. He detects signs that "someone" (aliens?) is doing this intentionally, to all kinds of knowledge workers. Wish I could remember the title and author.
- cwp 12y ago
  Yeah, but that's fine. Tptacek is not a sock-puppet, exactly because he's one guy with strong views. Yes, he has a lot of power here, and uses it to shape the discussion, but that's what we want! If we decide we don't like what he's doing, we can down-vote him to oblivion, or just ignore him. The problem is when one person has 1500 accounts, and just uses them to direct the discussion, without actually contributing to it.
- tptacek 12y ago
  At no point has the interests of any company I've worked with dovetailed with the NSA's. That was a profoundly ignorant and obnoxious accusation to casually lob at anyone.

by NovaS1X 12y ago

jsprogrammer 12y ago

Sockpuppets confirmed on HN.

ownagefool 12y ago

I've no doubt that people ask for citation in the manner suggested, but the gp had a resonable point. In the absense of evidence, it's better to assume what's going on is organic to online discussions. If you've been on the internet for the last 10 years, this is easy to believe. If not, just visit the phoronix fourms. You'll be astounded by the batshit insane folks.

jschwartzi 12y ago
I mainly just wanted to see an analysis of needless complexity which is organically injected into committee-based standards processes because it could inform my own work which depends so heavily on them. Additionally, when so much of software engineering involves dealing with multiple stakeholders, understanding how people can "concern-troll" a useless or damaging requirement into the process might allow me to diffuse such a situation in the future.

happyscrappy 12y ago

Many on HN would like to show up tptacek. The lack of response speaks to the lack of evidence.

diyorgasms 12y ago

Actually, Tptacek is one of the regular users here whom I most strongly suspect is acting as a sockpuppet for NSA interests, or perhaps his own company's interests dovetail with the US intelligence community's so well he is acting out of self-interest. It seems he makes an appearance in just about every thread where criticism of the US intelligence community is presented, and he seems to be staunchly in favor of everything the NSA has been doing. I don't want to make wanton accusations, as it is very possible he truly believes in that for which he argues. But since the Snowden revelations, Tptacek is the one user in whom the NSA has a staunch, unwavering defender.

mindslight 12y ago
IIRC, tptacek just has a more nuanced position wrt NSA spying. It just often comes across as towing the Party line. But that's certainly no reason to call him a sockpuppet. Frankly, if you think HN is pwned so hard that the highest-karma account is a sock puppet, why would you even bother? Maybe this whole board is just one giant programmatic timesink meant to waste your time and discourage you from doing something. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8745912 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8745912
- dctoedt 12y ago
  > * Maybe this whole board is just one giant programmatic timesink meant to waste your time and discourage you from doing something.* As a kid I read a science-fiction short story to that effect --- a successful scientist discovers that he's being drawn into more and more university-committee work, etc., and thus has less and less time for his real work. He detects signs that "someone" (aliens?) is doing this intentionally, to all kinds of knowledge workers. Wish I could remember the title and author.
cwp 12y ago
Yeah, but that's fine. Tptacek is not a sock-puppet, exactly because he's one guy with strong views. Yes, he has a lot of power here, and uses it to shape the discussion, but that's what we want! If we decide we don't like what he's doing, we can down-vote him to oblivion, or just ignore him. The problem is when one person has 1500 accounts, and just uses them to direct the discussion, without actually contributing to it.
tptacek 12y ago
At no point has the interests of any company I've worked with dovetailed with the NSA's. That was a profoundly ignorant and obnoxious accusation to casually lob at anyone.