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> But when I read recent reports about arson, looting, windows smashed, trash cans overturned and lit on fire, businesses destroyed, police officers assaulted w

> But when I read recent reports about arson, looting, windows smashed, trash cans overturned and lit on fire, businesses destroyed, police officers assaulted with rocks, explosives and firebombs, millions of damages caused, when I read about "burn that bitch down" - I think maybe this particular instance is not what I want to be part of at all. Maybe associating with this wouldn't do as much to combat either public perception of police needing to be tough or any particular prejudices. If you really were deeply concerned about police brutality and its disproportionate application against black people, then you would wholly understand that and outburst of anger and violence is a likely reaction when people are pushed to their limit. The current wave of protests are not those riots, they are organized action to protest this reality. Moreover, your approval means nothing while those lives are still destroyed and dominated by unjust systems and institutions.

smsm42 12y ago
Maybe understand - as I can to some measure understand somebody who was abused as a child, grew up as a violent adult and finally when insulted by somebody strikes out and kills him - but certainly not excuse or support. Even this understanding is somewhat strained - so the problem is police thinks they should be extremely tough to citizens and always suspect they are violent and up to no good - and to prove them wrong, lets burn our city down, destroy local businesses and pelt the police with rocks and firebombs? Then, surely, they'd know the errors of their ways and learn to treat us as responsible non-violent law-abiding citizens that we are. Does it sound like something that makes sense to you? >>> The current wave of protests are not those riots This was this monday: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/12/08/violence-erupts-at-berkeley-protest-for-second-straight-night/ http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/12/08/violence-erupts-at-berk... I have doubts the same people have changed in a week and would be completely benign now. >>> Moreover, your approval means nothing while those lives are still destroyed and dominated by unjust systems and institutions. It is true, that my approval means nothing to them. I'm just explaining why myself - and I suspect, many others - while supporting the overall goal of lowering police brutality - and actually having been supporting it way before current events - would not take part in these protests, as the top comment suggested. I think it is still relevant to the discussion. >>> while those lives are still destroyed and dominated by unjust systems and institutions. If you want to convince the silent majority the police is going too far and ends up hurting innocent people (or hurting not-so-innocent people way more than it is acceptable), making their TV show them pictures of fires, destruction and general mayhem may be not the most effective way to achieve it.
- malyk 12y ago
  Two things. First, it's not like there has been widespread looting and chaos at these marches. Yes, there has been some, for sure, but the vast vast majority of these protests and protestors are peaceful. It only takes one person to break windows and light fires. Second, even if there is looting and destruction it's generally not a rational thought process that leads people to it. These are angry, hopeless, beat down, etc people who feel like they never get any justice. I don't condone the violence, but I certainly understand it.
  - smsm42 12y ago
    >>> it's not like there has been widespread looting and chaos at these marches I'm not sure which exactly "these". I've heard a real lot of reports about the mayhem recently. Maybe if you count the number of perpetrators and divide it by the number of participants in all events everywhere, the result comes out low, I don't know. But I see how much damage was done[1], and I think there is enough of them to spoil it. >>> It only takes one person to break windows and light fires. Unfortunately, the size of the rioting and destruction does not look like it's done by "one person" or even negligible number of persons. If it would be so, they would be easily stopped by the people around them, or by the police with the help of the former. I've seen peaceful demonstrations, and I've seen riots (the latter, fortunately, only in recording) and there's a difference that can be seen. >>> even if there is looting and destruction it's generally not a rational thought process that leads people to it. I appreciate it. But since I am lucky enough to still possess the capability of rational thought and not be in a situation where I no longer have this luxury - maybe I should use it and ask myself "is this the best way?"And maybe call others who also have not abandoned the rational thought to do the same. >>> I don't condone the violence, but I certainly understand it. "Understand" is such a pliable word. Do I understand why some people may strap explosives to their bodies and explode them in the middle of a crowded market? Yes, I do, I am not stupid and there are tons of literature written on various ways of propaganda, brainwashing, misery, hopelessness and suffering. I can intellectually follow it without excusing the heinous actions in any way. And yet, when I read "I can understand it", it still somehow has a smell of excusing it to some measure. Is my perception wrong here? Same with rioting - I can follow the genesis of what happened, intellectually, but I can not see how what is happening is in any way makes it any better and do not think it should be excused. [1] http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/michael-brown-shooting/im-lost-now-can-fergusons-businesses-ever-rise-rubble-n256341 http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/michael-brown-shooting/im-l...

smsm42 12y ago

Maybe understand - as I can to some measure understand somebody who was abused as a child, grew up as a violent adult and finally when insulted by somebody strikes out and kills him - but certainly not excuse or support. Even this understanding is somewhat strained - so the problem is police thinks they should be extremely tough to citizens and always suspect they are violent and up to no good - and to prove them wrong, lets burn our city down, destroy local businesses and pelt the police with rocks and firebombs? Then, surely, they'd know the errors of their ways and learn to treat us as responsible non-violent law-abiding citizens that we are. Does it sound like something that makes sense to you? >>> The current wave of protests are not those riots This was this monday: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/12/08/violence-erupts-at-berkeley-protest-for-second-straight-night/ http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/12/08/violence-erupts-at-berk... I have doubts the same people have changed in a week and would be completely benign now. >>> Moreover, your approval means nothing while those lives are still destroyed and dominated by unjust systems and institutions. It is true, that my approval means nothing to them. I'm just explaining why myself - and I suspect, many others - while supporting the overall goal of lowering police brutality - and actually having been supporting it way before current events - would not take part in these protests, as the top comment suggested. I think it is still relevant to the discussion. >>> while those lives are still destroyed and dominated by unjust systems and institutions. If you want to convince the silent majority the police is going too far and ends up hurting innocent people (or hurting not-so-innocent people way more than it is acceptable), making their TV show them pictures of fires, destruction and general mayhem may be not the most effective way to achieve it.

malyk 12y ago
Two things. First, it's not like there has been widespread looting and chaos at these marches. Yes, there has been some, for sure, but the vast vast majority of these protests and protestors are peaceful. It only takes one person to break windows and light fires. Second, even if there is looting and destruction it's generally not a rational thought process that leads people to it. These are angry, hopeless, beat down, etc people who feel like they never get any justice. I don't condone the violence, but I certainly understand it.
- smsm42 12y ago
  >>> it's not like there has been widespread looting and chaos at these marches I'm not sure which exactly "these". I've heard a real lot of reports about the mayhem recently. Maybe if you count the number of perpetrators and divide it by the number of participants in all events everywhere, the result comes out low, I don't know. But I see how much damage was done[1], and I think there is enough of them to spoil it. >>> It only takes one person to break windows and light fires. Unfortunately, the size of the rioting and destruction does not look like it's done by "one person" or even negligible number of persons. If it would be so, they would be easily stopped by the people around them, or by the police with the help of the former. I've seen peaceful demonstrations, and I've seen riots (the latter, fortunately, only in recording) and there's a difference that can be seen. >>> even if there is looting and destruction it's generally not a rational thought process that leads people to it. I appreciate it. But since I am lucky enough to still possess the capability of rational thought and not be in a situation where I no longer have this luxury - maybe I should use it and ask myself "is this the best way?"And maybe call others who also have not abandoned the rational thought to do the same. >>> I don't condone the violence, but I certainly understand it. "Understand" is such a pliable word. Do I understand why some people may strap explosives to their bodies and explode them in the middle of a crowded market? Yes, I do, I am not stupid and there are tons of literature written on various ways of propaganda, brainwashing, misery, hopelessness and suffering. I can intellectually follow it without excusing the heinous actions in any way. And yet, when I read "I can understand it", it still somehow has a smell of excusing it to some measure. Is my perception wrong here? Same with rioting - I can follow the genesis of what happened, intellectually, but I can not see how what is happening is in any way makes it any better and do not think it should be excused. [1] http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/michael-brown-shooting/im-lost-now-can-fergusons-businesses-ever-rise-rubble-n256341 http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/michael-brown-shooting/im-l...