6 ms·

"More diversity (in neighborhoods, in workplaces, in schools) would certainly help" I'm not so sure. I went to a very diverse and large high school in NJ and w

by itg 12y ago

"More diversity (in neighborhoods, in workplaces, in schools) would certainly help" I'm not so sure. I went to a very diverse and large high school in NJ and what ends up happening is self segregation. All the ethnic groups would mostly end up hanging out with their own types.

shaded2 12y ago
That definately happens but is an underlying cause. I'm not sure what it is. I've lived in other countries where this natural segregation does not happen.
- learc83 12y ago
  I'd be interested in hearing about what countries you're talking about and the percentages of total population that these integrated groups make up.
- semi-extrinsic 12y ago
  There's a fascinating example in computational studies that partly explains this: if you have people of different groups moving around randomly on a lattice, even a very slight preference (51%/49%) for being next to people in the same group as oneself ends up leading to a self-segregated pattern. EDIT: see e.g http://ccl.northwestern.edu/netlogo/models/Segregation http://ccl.northwestern.edu/netlogo/models/Segregation
LukeShu 12y ago
I also went to a very diverse highschool (recently; class of 2012), and saw the same self-segregation. However, when I saw the census dotmap that was on here a while ago[1], it was obvious that even though the school district was diverse, each of the neighborhoods was clearly a "${race} neighborhood". I'm willing to believe that the self segregation in-school reflected the segregation outside of school; that more diverse schools and neighborhoods might solve this. [1]: http://bmander.com/dotmap/index.html http://bmander.com/dotmap/index.html though it seems to be down now
learc83 12y ago
I went to a diverse high school as well, and the county I live in now is about 45% white, 40% black, and 15% Hispanic. High School was segregated, Churches are segregated, even stores are segregated to a degree. I don't know if there is a way to change this. The cultures are very different between white, black, and Hispanic. We even speak different dialects. Unless you want to start forcing one culture to conform to another, de facto segregation is the likely outcome.
zimbu668 12y ago
When filming Planet of the Apes, the apes and humans didn't mingle over lunch, and the apes, orangutans, and chimpanzees all self segregated as well. http://www.futilitycloset.com/2013/12/13/skin-deep-2/ http://www.futilitycloset.com/2013/12/13/skin-deep-2/
- anigbrowl 12y ago
  It's worth reading the link here: the point is taht people have a tendency to segregate even for entirely arbitrary reasons, eg when they are playing members of different groups in a make-believe story for film. I've seen similar behavior on lots of film sets; if there are 'good guys' and 'bad guys' in the cast, they'll gravitate to each other at mealtimes, and likewise cast and crew tend to self-segregate as numbers increase.
Dove 12y ago
Yeah, I think it has more to do with how you're taught to think about people than what you're exposed to. I grew up in Spokane, WA -- 87% white by demographic survey, 98% people who look white if all you know about race is what you learned in Social Studies in elementary school. :) But what I was dominantly taught about who 'my people' were came from Christianity -- Christ died for everyone. My tribe is humanity. I was not raised to think race was important, and I didn't. That upbringing is with me to this day. I didn't reflexively categorize people by race, and I still don't. It's not something I even notice unless attention is called to it somehow. Other people from the region were raised differently. The inland pacific northwest is a region that white supremacists like, and we had them. Growing up in a racial monoculture, you could wind up totally innocent and clueless (like me) or totally racist (like some people I knew of), and probably a lot of other things. It really depended on what you were taught. The same can happen in diverse cultures, too. When I moved to Seattle, there was a lot more racial diversity. It still didn't mean anything to me, but it clearly meant things to others, and some people made quite a big deal out of it. I had an amusing conversation with a fellow visiting from the UK about it: Him: So . . . what is *with* your black people? Me: Excuse me? Him: Well, back home, we have black people, too. But . . . they're just regular people. The racial diversity in Seattle and in the UK did not result in the same attitudes! Of course, there are other 'tribes' over on that side of the world that do matter. But they aren't the same ones as matter over here. All in all, I think it's not what you're exposed to. It's how you think about it. If you see race, or gender, or religion, or age, or profession, or interests, or lifestyle as what makes someone 'your people', you can't help but have loyalties and opinions about what it means to be in or out of that circle. It doesn't matter if you meet foreigners (by your definition) every day, or once or twice a lifetime.
- conistonwater 12y ago
  Your quote is really ambiguous, I can't figure it out at all. Is there something wrong with Seattle black people? Surely not, but then just what exactly does that mean?
  - hobs 12y ago
    He means that the difference between white and black in america is magnified in comparison to the uk. Whether you think it is true or not, I see the USA as much more segregated than Europe, and so the culture differences are exacerbated between the races.
saraid216 12y ago
Also see keywords: echo chamber, filter bubble.

by itg 12y ago

shaded2 12y ago

That definately happens but is an underlying cause. I'm not sure what it is. I've lived in other countries where this natural segregation does not happen.

learc83 12y ago
I'd be interested in hearing about what countries you're talking about and the percentages of total population that these integrated groups make up.
semi-extrinsic 12y ago
There's a fascinating example in computational studies that partly explains this: if you have people of different groups moving around randomly on a lattice, even a very slight preference (51%/49%) for being next to people in the same group as oneself ends up leading to a self-segregated pattern. EDIT: see e.g http://ccl.northwestern.edu/netlogo/models/Segregation http://ccl.northwestern.edu/netlogo/models/Segregation

LukeShu 12y ago

I also went to a very diverse highschool (recently; class of 2012), and saw the same self-segregation. However, when I saw the census dotmap that was on here a while ago[1], it was obvious that even though the school district was diverse, each of the neighborhoods was clearly a "${race} neighborhood". I'm willing to believe that the self segregation in-school reflected the segregation outside of school; that more diverse schools and neighborhoods might solve this. [1]: http://bmander.com/dotmap/index.html http://bmander.com/dotmap/index.html though it seems to be down now

learc83 12y ago

I went to a diverse high school as well, and the county I live in now is about 45% white, 40% black, and 15% Hispanic. High School was segregated, Churches are segregated, even stores are segregated to a degree. I don't know if there is a way to change this. The cultures are very different between white, black, and Hispanic. We even speak different dialects. Unless you want to start forcing one culture to conform to another, de facto segregation is the likely outcome.

zimbu668 12y ago

When filming Planet of the Apes, the apes and humans didn't mingle over lunch, and the apes, orangutans, and chimpanzees all self segregated as well. http://www.futilitycloset.com/2013/12/13/skin-deep-2/ http://www.futilitycloset.com/2013/12/13/skin-deep-2/

anigbrowl 12y ago
It's worth reading the link here: the point is taht people have a tendency to segregate even for entirely arbitrary reasons, eg when they are playing members of different groups in a make-believe story for film. I've seen similar behavior on lots of film sets; if there are 'good guys' and 'bad guys' in the cast, they'll gravitate to each other at mealtimes, and likewise cast and crew tend to self-segregate as numbers increase.

Dove 12y ago

Yeah, I think it has more to do with how you're taught to think about people than what you're exposed to. I grew up in Spokane, WA -- 87% white by demographic survey, 98% people who look white if all you know about race is what you learned in Social Studies in elementary school. :) But what I was dominantly taught about who 'my people' were came from Christianity -- Christ died for everyone. My tribe is humanity. I was not raised to think race was important, and I didn't. That upbringing is with me to this day. I didn't reflexively categorize people by race, and I still don't. It's not something I even notice unless attention is called to it somehow. Other people from the region were raised differently. The inland pacific northwest is a region that white supremacists like, and we had them. Growing up in a racial monoculture, you could wind up totally innocent and clueless (like me) or totally racist (like some people I knew of), and probably a lot of other things. It really depended on what you were taught. The same can happen in diverse cultures, too. When I moved to Seattle, there was a lot more racial diversity. It still didn't mean anything to me, but it clearly meant things to others, and some people made quite a big deal out of it. I had an amusing conversation with a fellow visiting from the UK about it: Him: So . . . what is *with* your black people? Me: Excuse me? Him: Well, back home, we have black people, too. But . . . they're just regular people. The racial diversity in Seattle and in the UK did not result in the same attitudes! Of course, there are other 'tribes' over on that side of the world that do matter. But they aren't the same ones as matter over here. All in all, I think it's not what you're exposed to. It's how you think about it. If you see race, or gender, or religion, or age, or profession, or interests, or lifestyle as what makes someone 'your people', you can't help but have loyalties and opinions about what it means to be in or out of that circle. It doesn't matter if you meet foreigners (by your definition) every day, or once or twice a lifetime.

conistonwater 12y ago
Your quote is really ambiguous, I can't figure it out at all. Is there something wrong with Seattle black people? Surely not, but then just what exactly does that mean?
- hobs 12y ago
  He means that the difference between white and black in america is magnified in comparison to the uk. Whether you think it is true or not, I see the USA as much more segregated than Europe, and so the culture differences are exacerbated between the races.

saraid216 12y ago

Also see keywords: echo chamber, filter bubble.