19 ms·

Einstein: The Negro Question (1946)

441 points by juanplusjuan 12y ago

jamesblonde 12y ago
Way ahead of his time
- earleybird 12y ago
  I believe it is a mistake to think that we're somehow smarter or better than those who have gone before us.
  - Retra 12y ago
    Well, we should be. Every day we aren't is a sad day.
  - markgarity 12y ago
    As individual human parts perhaps, but as a collective humanity we surely are.
lpsz 12y ago
What, however, can the man of good will do to combat this deeply rooted prejudice? More diversity (in neighborhoods, in workplaces, in schools) would certainly help -- the transition from "us" and "them" to a unified "us." And yet, it's disappointing how segregated America still is today. One fairly in-depth study [1] offers an example of how "today" came to be. (This report is not about any current events, but rather a detailed account of city zoning over a few decades.) [1] http://www.epi.org/publication/making-ferguson/ http://www.epi.org/publication/making-ferguson/
- skylan_q 12y ago
  More diversity (in neighborhoods, in workplaces, in schools) would certainly help Maybe instead of forcing segregation, or forcing integration, freedom of association could be tried?
  - moron4hire 12y ago
    Unfortunately, once communities start out segregated, they stay segregated.
    - itjustdontwork 12y ago
      Unfortunately Why is it unfortunate? No white person in their right mind would honestly prefer to live in a half-black community over an all-white community. Sure, they may say they would to save political face, or to look benevolent or "tolerant" and progressive, but deep down? No. The difference in crime rates and quality of life is just astounding. To prefer to live amongst more blacks is to prefer to be more at risk of having a violent (or other) crime committed against you and having your property values diminish greatly. Yes there are lots of bad white people out there but they're much less concentrated within the race.
      - moron4hire 12y ago
        I think you need to take a look at crime statistics again. They're income-based, not race-based. In the United States, poor often also means minority, but it's not race that makes inner cities violent. It's destitution, and the desperation it causes.
        yummyfajitas 12y ago
        I'm not remotely defending his thesis (and my life choices contradict his claims pretty well) but you are simply wrong about the crime stats. To choose one category of crime, blacks make up about half of of murderers. However, there are twice as many poor whites as there are poor blacks. http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2012/crime-in-the-u.s.-2012/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_3_murder_offenders_by_age_sex_and_race_2012.xls http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2012/c... http://kff.org/other/state-indicator/poverty-rate-by-raceethnicity/ http://kff.org/other/state-indicator/poverty-rate-by-raceeth... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States#Race_and_ethnicity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_Sta... Further, international comparisons suggest you are wrong about American-style "destitution" causing crime. I know many professionals (I live in India) who are far more "destitute" than any poor American (at least in terms of goods and services they can afford). Strangely they don't turn to crime at anywhere near the rates Americans (of any race) do.
- rogerallen 12y ago
  if you haven't seen this, there's even some math to explain how "today" came to be. http://ncase.me/polygons/ http://ncase.me/polygons/
  - swatow 12y ago
    Mathematical models can be used to argue for a wide range of viewpoints. You could also write a model where people have different innate preferences over the lifestyle they want to lead, and so self-sorting is an unambiguously good thing. I understand that everyone wants "math" to be on their side, but it's not really mathematics that is doing the work here, it's your assumptions.
    - moron4hire 12y ago
      Did you play with it at all? It's somewhat flawed--for example, boosting the "prejudice" level to > 85% often leads to diverse, if not stable, communities. But I think it demonstrates the concept well. If a community starts out segregated, it takes being actively displeased with the lack of diversity to get it to change, because people, without a reason to move, won't move.
      - swatow 12y ago
        No I didn't. My point was that when you expand or change the model, you open up a whole new range of possibilities. I'm not particularly interested in how the model is parametrized or what parameters lead to what result.
        moron4hire 12y ago
        Again, the point was not the model, but the story.
        swatow 12y ago
        If the point is the story, what purpose does the model/simulation serve? In this case, the best that the model does is prove that the story is internally consistent. It doesn't prove that the story has any relationship to reality, because there are hundreds of other stories about segregation that you could tell, each with their own model.
- itg 12y ago
  "More diversity (in neighborhoods, in workplaces, in schools) would certainly help" I'm not so sure. I went to a very diverse and large high school in NJ and what ends up happening is self segregation. All the ethnic groups would mostly end up hanging out with their own types.
  - shaded2 12y ago
    That definately happens but is an underlying cause. I'm not sure what it is. I've lived in other countries where this natural segregation does not happen.
    - learc83 12y ago
      I'd be interested in hearing about what countries you're talking about and the percentages of total population that these integrated groups make up.
    - semi-extrinsic 12y ago
      There's a fascinating example in computational studies that partly explains this: if you have people of different groups moving around randomly on a lattice, even a very slight preference (51%/49%) for being next to people in the same group as oneself ends up leading to a self-segregated pattern. EDIT: see e.g http://ccl.northwestern.edu/netlogo/models/Segregation http://ccl.northwestern.edu/netlogo/models/Segregation
  - LukeShu 12y ago
    I also went to a very diverse highschool (recently; class of 2012), and saw the same self-segregation. However, when I saw the census dotmap that was on here a while ago[1], it was obvious that even though the school district was diverse, each of the neighborhoods was clearly a "${race} neighborhood". I'm willing to believe that the self segregation in-school reflected the segregation outside of school; that more diverse schools and neighborhoods might solve this. [1]: http://bmander.com/dotmap/index.html http://bmander.com/dotmap/index.html though it seems to be down now
  - learc83 12y ago
- revscat 12y ago
  I believe a greater benefit would occur were we to have more mixed race couples, and with it the offspring that would tend to be produced by those relationships.
  - cJ0th 12y ago
    absolutely. More generally you could say that people from different races need to have something in common to get along with each other. Or even more general: People need to have something in common to have a healthy relationship. I think the main problem is that most people lack a true passion for anything. Even many people of the same race don't get along well because they have no real interest in anything. If they don't even share the same race (i.e. have even more different properties), shit is about to get real. Based on that theory I would guess that you see less racism amongst hackers, musicians, athletes etc. Humans may have made great progress technologically. But having neat digital watches didn't help society as a whole to grow intellectually to the same extend.
  - anomalous 12y ago
    Although, this sort of integration was encouraged and took place in Brazil and the mixed-race Brazilian offspring of today still seemingly and disproportionately prefer to be categorized as 'white' based on year-to-year census results.
    - JetSpiegel 12y ago
      Stopping putting the race questions in the census would certainly help. Who cares about that? Just having that question is an implicit assumption that race matters.
  - leephillips 12y ago
    Or, as Sen. Bulworth says in the movie of the same name, "Everybody just gotta keep fuckin' everybody 'til they're all the same color."
  - seekingtruth 12y ago
    So, literally genocide.
- FrankenPC 12y ago
  Yes. But, due to powerful cultural influences, humans will tend to want to group together for comfort purposes. Diversity implies fractured culture. Humans are loathe to fracture their sense of community through shared culture. I'm going with good, fair, and free mass education. All the way to college. If everyone gets the same level of education then no one will FEEL out of place in any culture as they will be aware of common cultural differences through education. Good education repairs a LOT of social ills.
- angrybits 12y ago
  An increase in diversity is a goal, it's not a course of action. We should be trying to root out whatever the underlying causes are that lead us to segregate ourselves into the groups that we end up in. Forced de-segregation (as in the case of bussing kids around in public school districts) is only temporary, as the people who want to be in their groups will take action to achieve that end. For whatever it is worth, I think income inequality (between rich and poor, all races) is probably the biggest inhibitor to this problem. Motivated-yet-poor people cannot easily break out of their groups, with no money for college and (alot of times) a criminal record preventing them from enlisting in the service. If you have resources you have choices, and the poor have very little in the way of choice. And the affluent who do have a choice will almost always make the choice to not live among those who have nothing to lose, whatever their color may be.
  - saraid216 12y ago
    > An increase in diversity is a goal, it's not a course of action. Yes, actually, it is. It's fine to say you disagree with the course of action because you believe it is immoral or ineffective, but it is absolutely a course of action. > We should be trying to root out whatever the underlying causes are that lead us to segregate ourselves into the groups that we end up in. One of these causes is "that's how it has always been". How would you propose to root out this one?
  - moskie 12y ago
    Why not both? I think we can work to address both the symptoms and the disease in tandem. Treat the symptom of segregation by implementing programs or initiatives that actively promote diversity. Also, root out the underlying cause by.... doing lots of various things over the course of generations to convince/teach people that racism is wrong. Treating the symptom helps alleviate the problems experienced by people of color who are alive today. Addressing the cause could take a long, long time.
- itjustdontwork 12y ago
  More diversity (in neighborhoods, in workplaces, in schools) would certainly help Never heard the term "there goes the neighborhood"? America is segregated today not because of white people, as in fact black people are far more prejudiced and racist than white people (and there is mounds of evidence to support this). But rather because you have a town thats nice, and then black people start moving in and the neighborhood town or city quickly starts going south, fast, almost without fail. Why? Because blacks make up 12% of the US population but commit half of all murders and more than half of all robberies. It's really amazing when you look at the crime statistics out there, and the amazingly consistent correlation between the percentage of black people in a certain area, and how (un)safe and (un)pleasant that area is to live in. There will never be a unified "us" as long as a significant portion of black people continue to behave the way they do and force white people to flee to safer ground. Plain and simple. The only people who truly support that "diversity" baloney are either people who have never actually had to live with it, or have something to gain from it politically or financially. Abraham Lincoln supported black colonization for a good reason; unfortunately nobody likes to talk about that when they talk about him though. Obviously forced colonization is a stupid and immoral idea, but voluntary segregation is, unfortunately, what will end up being best for us until more black people start getting their act together. EDIT: Truth hurts I see. I guess it's much easier for most people to hide comments that offend them rather than responding with an intelligent counterpoint or pointing out where you think they're "wrong".
- protonfish 12y ago
  Forced integration is a terrible idea that is proven to not work. It is the equivalent of locking enemies in a room and hoping they work it all out peacefully.
- lexcorvus 12y ago
  More diversity…would certainly help It's far from certain. For example, Harvard social scientist Robert Putnam has (tentatively and, I think, somewhat reluctantly) suggested the opposite. Here's an interview he did for National Public Radio: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=12802663 http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1280266... Money quote: Social scientist Robert Putnam, probably best known for his work "Bowling Alone," on the decline of civic engagement, wanted to know does diversity have an impact on our sense of community? His recent finding suggest that diversity might not make us stronger. In fact, it might just be the opposite. It might make us less inclined to participate in civic life, at least in the short term.
- scobar 12y ago
  I think Einstein's very next sentence, "He must have the courage to set an example by word and deed, and must watch lest his children become influenced by this racial bias." is great advice. The faster we demonstrate to our younger generations that our erroneous tradition must be corrected, the faster the goals of more diversity and elimination of racial bias can be achieved.
- NoMoreNicksLeft 12y ago
  > More diversity If I were to ask, "what can a man of good will do to combat tornado calamities", would you respond with a "more air temperature homogeneity would certainly help"? We can't reasonably engineer or create "neighborhood diversity". There are some policies that have tried to accomplish this, and they fail miserably. The "diversity" ends up artificial and hollow, and does nothing for prejudice. In some cases it seems to amplify it. > the transition from "us" and "them" to a unified "us." There can never be an "us" when we're talking about the 300 million people in the United States. There can't even be an "us" if you're talking about the 8 million in New York City, or the 500,000 in Atlanta. Human beings are limited in their ability to form an "us", and it's in the low hundreds.
- seekingtruth 12y ago
  Show me a place on Earth where decreasing the ethnic/cultural homogeneity has improved community cohesion and rapport.
- laofmoonster 12y ago
  What do you make of this map, then? It shows scores on an Implicit Association Test, measuring subconscious racism by white people against black people. http://img.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/files/2014/12/Race-IAT-score-map_White6.jpg http://img.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/files/2014/12/R... There is a liberal-conservative correlation on the map, a but far stronger correlation is the racial makeup of the state. The "deep roots" of racism don't seem to go away with exposure. Other empirical data, such as Robert Putnam's work mentioned in another comment, suggest just the opposite.
mariodiana 12y ago
The thing I like is the reference to Aristotle. Today, there are some people who are too quick to brand anyone who disagrees with their enlightened views as a "moron" or worse. There's no winning hearts and minds that way. It's better to gently point out the mistakes of those who are otherwise worthy of respect, in the hopes that this will spur others towards self-reflection, than to castigate and put people on the defensive. We could use more of that.
- wutangson1 12y ago
  Great point, even considering that Einstein seems to be taking Aristotle and ancient Greek dogma totally out of context. Perhaps, as was and is a tradition in academic circles, he was advocating that contemporary scientists were in fact better and more enlightened than the Greeks. Or, maybe it was a reaction against Hitler's fascination with the ancient Greeks. Yet, Aristotle did not present a clear belief system on slavery, especially considering that even Socrates dialogue Meno, he makes the case for the equality and infinite capacity of all humankind.
  - Locke1689 12y ago
    Meno was written by Plato.
  - lotsofmangos 12y ago
    Plato wrote Meno and Aristotle presented a very clear belief system on slavery in Book I, Chapters 3 through 7 of The Politics and in Book 7 of the Nicomachean Ethics. "But is there any one thus intended by nature to be a slave, and for whom such a condition is expedient and right, or rather is not all slavery a violation of nature?" "There is no difficulty in answering this question, on grounds both of reason and of fact. For that some should rule and others be ruled is a thing not only necessary, but expedient; from the hour of their birth, some are marked out for subjection, others for rule." http://classics.mit.edu/Aristotle/politics.1.one.html http://classics.mit.edu/Aristotle/politics.1.one.html edit - mind you, he also had a tendency to write stuff like: "If a woman looks at a highly polished mirror during the menstrual period, the surface of the mirror becomes like a blood shot cloud", so it isn't as though the slavery thing is a small unfortunate oversight in some otherwise wise philosophy. If you forget for a minute that you are dealing with Aristotle, he is consistently quite considerably bonkers, and seemingly just winging it through a lot of his writing, though there is plenty of genius in there as well.
blazespin 12y ago
I was always impressed by his stand against zionism. http://www.newdemocracyworld.org/old/einstein.htm http://www.newdemocracyworld.org/old/einstein.htm
- swatow 12y ago
  Interesting that his views on race in America are now mainstream, while his views on Zionism are rarely voiced outside the far left or far right. It seems to me that his views are based on a consistent application of principals, while American politics isn't.
  - Retra 12y ago
    Most mainstream Americans' political principles are variations on "defend your side at all costs." An ideology without a (real) problem to solve is a very dangerous thing.
    - vacri 12y ago
      Viewing the US from the outside, it really is puzzling that in that land of freedom - where the ability of the individual to express themself is prized above all others - happens to be a place where people are pigeonholed by which one of two political parties they vote for, and it's frequently considered to be all you need to know to know everything about a person's opinions. "Well he would say that, he's a Democrat" kind of thing.
      - deleted 12y ago
        [deleted]
- josh_fyi 12y ago
  He supported Labor Zionism. Like other Labor Zionists, he opposed the right wing of Zionism. Also, like other so-called cultural Zionists, he was more concerned with establishing a homeland where Jews could express their culture, but was less concerned with having a sovereign state. Indeed at that time, the land was a "mandate" under British rule, neither Jewish nor Arab. (In those days, many lands were ruled by European empires. The notion that each non-European nation needed its own state only solidified later, partially under Israel's example.) http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2009/12/how-einstein-divided-americas-jews/307763/?single_page=true http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2009/12/how-eins...
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aik 12y ago
Very interesting. There are some other articles by Einstein there as well. The Science and Religion one is particularly interesting: http://www.onbeing.org/program/einstein039s-god-einstein039s-ethics/extra/einstein-science-and-religion-1940/1986 http://www.onbeing.org/program/einstein039s-god-einstein039s...
fsloth 12y ago
I am humbled by the sincerity and humanity of this writing. Thanks for sharing.
kroy 12y ago
This is really fascinating. This part particularly struck me: "[Americans'] sense of equality and human dignity is mainly limited to men of white skins. Even among these there are prejudices of which I as a Jew am clearly conscious" As a non-black person of color, this has been my access point to issues of race and oppression. Thinking about the (relatively) minor prejudices and indignities I've experienced made me a lot more receptive to the idea that things just aren't right for a lot of people. That oppression is real. And it's also made me aware of the privilege that I do enjoy as a college-educated male who's the son of college educated parents. This is a very prescient and relevant piece by Einstein. I'm glad it's on HN!
- washedup 12y ago
  Couldn't agree more that the opposition is real. I have witnessed much of it living in a divided city like Chicago. The most difficult question about it is what we can do to shift government attention and resources? Not in the form of police cameras, squad cars, or militarization, but in the form of education and infrastructure projects. This is only a small part of the question, however. A bigger issue is not where the government spends money, but zoning laws, tax incentives to move to certain areas, and other laws that have been built up and influenced over time to create the situation we have today. People have been noticing this and pointing it out for a long, long time. Surely Einstein would observe similar treatments as well, particularly because of his fresh perspective.
  - doomlaser 12y ago
    One of the biggest peaceful protests on this issue is happening today, across the nation, but you wouldn't know it from the Hacker News frontpage. It's been troubling seeing any links about the Ferguson and Eric Garner protests wiped from Hacker News before they attract very many upvotes. The issues being debated encompass government action, fundamental technology and privacy rights, as well as race, but they're being ignored here for the most part and I don't understand exactly why. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/14/us/thousands-march-in-washington-to-protest-deaths-by-police.html http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/14/us/thousands-march-in-wash... http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2014/dec/13/police-killings-protests-washington-new-york-live-coverage http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2014/dec/13/police-k...
sethbannon 12y ago
"I can escape the feeling of complicity in it only by speaking out." Sadly on the matter of unequal race relations these words ring nearly as true in 2014 as they did in 1946.
xxxyy 12y ago
This is all nice, but lacks facts. I would like to point out a few numbers: 1) During the Atlantic slave trade period there were around 10 million African slaves sold. Around 500k went to the US, which accounts for 5% [1]. Where are the successors of the remaining 95%? Maybe America was not that bad after all? 2) It is a matter of fact that there is a statistical connection between race and learning skills [2] 3) I obviously don't have to mention correlations between race and crime. People are racist because the facts justify it. It is a matter of applying Bayesian statistics to every day life. [1] http://www.theroot.com/articles/history/2012/10/how_many_slaves_came_to_america_fact_vs_fiction.html http://www.theroot.com/articles/history/2012/10/how_many_sla... [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_achievement_gap_in_the_United_States http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_achievement_gap_in_the_U...
revscat 12y ago
What makes this discussion so much more frustrating today is that the racial biases are inherent in the system. While the laws are structured to be. Entrap, their application is decidedly not. While I, a white male, choose to do as Einstein here suggests and live a life of example, and teach my children the destructiveness of racism, my actions do not directly help those in my country who are suffering from official and unofficial forms of discrimination. I want to do more, but... "What can men do in the face of such reckless hate?"
- palimpsests 12y ago
  I think this starts to address your question: http://qz.com/250701/12-things-white-people-can-do-now-because-ferguson/ http://qz.com/250701/12-things-white-people-can-do-now-becau... And I think this article is really helpful for perspective: http://www.timwise.org/2014/12/we-dont-need-nice-we-need-justice-racism-and-the-moral-blindness-of-white-america/ http://www.timwise.org/2014/12/we-dont-need-nice-we-need-jus...
phazelift 12y ago
Amazingly great thinker with a great heart too, we are so in need of people like him..
33223332323 12y ago
> The ancient Greeks also had slaves. They were not Negroes but white men who had been taken captive in war. There could be no talk of racial differences. As Slavic I find this inaccurate and bit offensive :-)
- learc83 12y ago
  Most people in America would consider a Slavic person white. There is no scientific definition of "white", it is a social construct that has changed to be more inclusive as various groups integrated into American society.
  - 33223332323 12y ago
    It does not even compute...
  - kzrdude 12y ago
    What is weird from my perspective is how the races as concepts still are accepted and used, even though they are ambiguous and deeply problematic. For example those that have the "pleasure" of hearing "but you are white" will understand that there is a scale of whiteness and you've just been graded on that scale.
    - throwaway90446 12y ago
      Unless and until our recent era of mass global travel results in a highly genetically uniform species, we will continue to have population groups that share allele groupings differently than other population groups which share different allele groupings.
- vixen99 12y ago
  A bit offensive? Why?
  - xxxyy 12y ago
    Because there are racial-alike tensions within the Caucasian people, such as Nazi/Jews, West/Slavic, Protestant/Catholic.
vinceguidry 12y ago
Anyone interested in this topic should read Karen Armstrong's Fields of Blood http://www.amazon.com/Fields-Blood-Religion-History-Violence/dp/0307957047/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1418494474&sr=8-1&keywords=fields+of+blood http://www.amazon.com/Fields-Blood-Religion-History-Violence... The first chapter gives a very good rationale for where hatred and subjugation of the 'other' comes from and the book traces how this kind of socialized violence evolved over the ages.
- iamdave 12y ago
  Two hours from hopping on a ten hour train ride, thanks for the reading material!
vixen99 12y ago
Relevant to the subject Einstein addresses I strongly recommend the writing of Thomas Sowell. http://www.tsowell.com/ http://www.tsowell.com/
- mikeyouse 12y ago
  Sowell has some interesting things to say but it's mixed in with the heavy portion of nonsensical wharrgarbl.. He spends a lot of time calling for the bombing of Iran (so that the US doesn't surrender to them after they nuke us of course), claiming that Obama hates America (going so far as to compare to him to Hitler for creating an oil spill fund), advocating bizarre Federal Reserve conspiracy theories, and all sorts of other strange ideas. It's hard to take the rest of what he says seriously with all that baggage..
markgarity 12y ago
"It would be foolish to despise tradition. But with our growing self-consciousness and increasing intelligence we must begin to control tradition and assume a critical attitude toward it, if human relations are ever to change for the better. We must try to recognize what in our accepted tradition is damaging to our fate and dignity—and shape our lives accordingly." Key takeaway, in my opinion, and this extends beyond racial prejudices.
- bostik 12y ago
  What you quoted above gives credence that another quote attributed to Einstein actually is his. I can even recognise the tone in the segment about Aristotle and his views about slavery. The quote in question? "Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." - Albert Einstein Even if it was misattributed, it's still one hell of a motto to live by.
  - Fishkins 12y ago
    That quote was correctly attributed to Einstein (although it's unclear whether we used those exact words) http://quoteinvestigator.com/2014/04/29/common-sense/ http://quoteinvestigator.com/2014/04/29/common-sense/
schimmy_changa 12y ago
If this moves you, follow Einstein's logic to today's world and join in the struggle. There are marches today, consider this your invitation! SF: https://www.facebook.com/events/675598982556580/ https://www.facebook.com/events/675598982556580/ Oakland: https://www.facebook.com/events/858052834217501/ https://www.facebook.com/events/858052834217501/ NYC: https://www.facebook.com/events/959630214065046/ https://www.facebook.com/events/959630214065046/ Boston: https://www.facebook.com/events/1559794327598726/ https://www.facebook.com/events/1559794327598726/ (and I'm sure there's one near where you live as well)
- schimmy_changa 12y ago
  I am not sure why this is being downvoted... People are asking above "What, however, can the man of good will do to combat this deeply rooted prejudice?". One prong of this prejudice is the structure of our justice system, and participating in these marches can help that.
  - calibraxis 12y ago
    It's downvoted because it's currently the most serious and rational post on actually solving oppression. Rather than musing abstractly about some dead white scientist talking about blacks. (While taking a break from making money for investors/bosses.) Speaking of prominent white activist intellectuals, here's Chomsky's view on Einstein: "Compare Russell and Einstein, two leading figures, roughly the same generation. They agreed on the grave dangers facing humanity, but chose different ways to respond. Einstein responded by living a very comfortable life in Princeton and dedicating himself to research that he loved, taking a few moments for an occasional oracular statement. Russell responded by leading demonstrations and getting himself dragged off by the cops, writing extensively on the problems of the day, organizing war crimes trials, etc. The result? Russell was and is reviled and condemned, Einstein is admired as a saint. Should that surprise us? Not at all."
    - n72 12y ago
      "some dead white scientist" You do realize Einstein was a Jew who was forced to leave Germany because of Nazism, right?
nobrains 12y ago
All men are created equal. Except Blacks. And Muslims. And non-Americans. And Native Americans.
- itjustdontwork 12y ago
  Tell us something we don't all already know? It's a fact that rich black students on average have a lower IQ and do worse on tests than the poorest of white students. Just as men are different from women, in many ways, blacks are different from whites in many ways. There's no point in trying to hide from it.
  - audioburn 12y ago
    >It's a fact that rich black students on average have a lower IQ and do worse on tests than the poorest of white students. Citation needed
    - lexcorvus 12y ago
      There's a lot of data on this subject; if you're actually interested in evaluating it as a scientific hypothesis (rather than dismissing it as heresy), this should get you started: http://isteve.blogspot.com/2014/03/2008-sat-scores-by-race-by-income.html http://isteve.blogspot.com/2014/03/2008-sat-scores-by-race-b... The study in question involves the SAT, not formal IQ tests, but the two are highly correlated. [1] You'll also see that the original claim isn't quite supported, as the poorest group of whites scored slightly worse than the richest group of blacks, but the study does broadly support the conclusion that the poorest whites outscore all but the richest blacks. [1]: See, e.g., http://www.psychologicalscience.org/pdf/ps/Frey.pdf?origin=publication_detail http://www.psychologicalscience.org/pdf/ps/Frey.pdf?origin=p.... "These studies indicate that the SAT is mainly a test of g [general intelligence]."
    - cityboy0 12y ago
      https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c6/1995-SAT-vs-Income-Education.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c6/1995-SAT... Plus page 41 and 44 of this PDF: http://nyulawreview.org/sites/default/files/pdf/NYULawReview-72-1-Wightman.pdf http://nyulawreview.org/sites/default/files/pdf/NYULawReview... Plus the first few sentences here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence#United_States_test_scores https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence#United_S... As well as many more. By the way guys, downvoting and flagkilling comments to silence opinions (that are backed up by facts and statistics) that hurt your feelings? Lame.
moron4hire 12y ago
Racism will continue to be a problem as long as it serves as a useful distraction for the people to prevent us from really scrutinizing the ruling class and the complete disparity between the goals of the super-rich people and the needs of the rest of us who are just trying to get by. Racism, sexism, homophobia, drugs, guns, taxes, war, spying, all of it are just distractions because whether the issue goes left or right won't matter to most people. What really matters is whether or not people can feed their children, have a roof over their heads, have something meaningful to do with their time, be warm in the winter, be free from violence. These are the things that matter, but we're all caught up in bikeshedding over how to get there. And in the process, a very small group of people get to come in and unilaterally take action to fill their own pockets. Everything else that happens is the rest of us playing Lord of the Flies. Isms will end when the majority takes up the cause of the minority, because in actuality, it's their/our cause, too.
- _almosnow 12y ago
  Totally agree with your view of how things work on a higher scale. Isms will always exist because not all of us are equal and we will never be; and I'm not saying that with a discriminating tone, what I mean is that you have to be completely retarded (excuse me, but it's true) to actually believe and state that we are all the same. We all like different stuff, we all have different ways to achieve our goals, we even have (VERY) different moral foundations to asses whether something should be right or wrong. On the other hand, most of us are used to live under the terrible premise to puts oneself (and thus, its kind) before others. Put these two facts together and everything that has happened (and will continue to happen) throughout our history becomes obvious.
lexcorvus 12y ago
Many a sincere person will answer: "Our attitude towards Negroes is the result of unfavorable experiences which we have had by living side by side with Negroes in this country. They are not our equals in intelligence, sense of responsibility, reliability." I am firmly convinced that whoever believes this suffers from a fatal misconception. Although it has clear political implications, the last part of the quote-within-a-quote ("They are not our equals…") is a scientific hypothesis. Does it strike you that people who take the opposite view of Einstein's—or who even consider its possibility—are treated as merely mistaken? As suffering from a misconception? No—they are treated with opprobrium, condemned with epithets (racist, fascist, etc.), and purged from civil society. No reasonable person denies that the ancestors of slaves were mistreated, but as an explanation for group differences this is not mutually exclusive with cultural or biological factors that may have nothing to do with past oppression. Unfortunately, this subject is not treated as a scientific matter—it has become a political fight. Einstein appears to be "ahead of his time" not because of the triumph of his scientific arguments but because his political allies have been consistently advancing.
- nyolfen 12y ago
  oh noo the racists will be called racist, such material oppression
  - cityboy0 12y ago
    So what you're saying is facts don't matter and should be ignored and are "racist" if they come from evil straight white males and put non-whites in a bad light? Interesting. How righteous. "First they came for the people who tried to have a scientific discussion about race... but I did not speak out, because the scientific findings offended me and invalidated my world view."
- lotsofmangos 12y ago
  It was ever a political fight. That's what happens when you end up neighbors with the great great grandson of the bloke your great great granddaddy paid to have kidnapped and shipped to the country as a piece of equipment. Sure you can argue over the details about what their family have been like to be around in the intervening time, but don't be surprised if the conversation gets back around to the question of who exactly kidnapped who in the first place. Is pretty pointless to winge about it being political.
myownbusiness 12y ago
Here's the truth that you young programmers aren't going to like. Einstein was a closet socialist/communist who was hugely overrated as a physicist by the media precisely for his left-leaning politics. "Civil rights" is a nation-splitting tactic that was deeply funded and driven by COMINTERN from the beginning from NAACP to the Scottsboro trials and all the way up to the "protests" in 2014. You folks have been taught your entire lives by a school system similarly deliberately subverted by leftists (see GAMAY for a well-written example) with teachers and professors with viewpoints that average more leftwing than 90% of the country. The sentiment I'm expressing has been dismissed by your "authorities" as propaganda, lies, redbaiting, etc for decades. But, when _hard_ evidence proving these things has come to light, whether the Pumpkin Papers or Venona or redacted files on Michael King Jr, folks just shrug and pretend that's in the past, doesn't matter, or was laudable. Which is it? Is it a LIE that folks like Einstein were crypto-Reds or is it a TRUTH that doesn't matter because you want the revolution? More importantly, when, exactly, are you "millennials" going to think for yourselves, rather than turning "hacker news" into the bastard love child of Pravda and Slashdot?
- myownbusiness 12y ago
  Show that I'm wrong, downvoting coward.
  - tokipin 12y ago
    any one of Einstein's contributions in his miracle year would have put him in the history books. to say his contributions to science have been exaggerated is incorrect. he really was that good, whether you like that fact or not.
- vidarh 12y ago
  I find it absolutely hilarious that you believe that Comintern - an organization that was dissolved in 1943 - is still "funding and driving" civil rights struggles. As someone who used to be active in a party that used to be a part of the Comintern, and that spent a lot of time during my youth to try to build support for re-establishing an International, and who learned in the process there are about a dozen "Fourth Internationals" (Comintern was the Third), a few Fifths, and at least a couple of Sixths, none of which acknowledge each other, all of which are ludicrously impotent tiny little groups, the idea of some shadowy remnant of the Third actually still existing and having the power and will to do something good for a change is some world class tin foil hattery. I also love how you try to pretend that it was a secret that Einstein was left wing, yet at the same time try to push the idea that the supposedly left wing US press (... as a European, the very idea of a left wing US press is comedy gold) were exaggerating his worth as a physicist because of his secret left wing views. By all means, keep on going. It's exactly this over the top lunacy that have changed US attitudes to socialism - the rate of change the last 20 years have been astounding. Maybe in another 20 your political landscape will start to approach the European.
mathu7 12y ago
this is the part of Einstein's legacy that I wish more people knew about
UhUhUhUh 12y ago
Bottom line, then and now, to be a racist you need either be stupid or have serious psychological issues or a combination of both. On a side note, I always admired Einstein for his tremendous ability to abstract problems. I believe he is the co-inventor of the "thought experiment" with Mach. You can always feel this ability in his writings.
- peterfirefly 12y ago
  Galileo has a brilliant thought experiment in De Motu about heavy and light falling bodies, possibly connected with a string. I think Bacon (both Roger and Francis) also used thought experiments to great effect.
pvnick 12y ago
I hope what I have to say is not as controversial as I fear, but I don't think that individual racist beliefs are as big a problem as we have been told. To look at somebody and consciously judge them to be inferior based on their skin color is so outdated and obsolete, that those who do so are fringe members of society who are typically elderly and either changing their mindset or dying out. We elected a black president in a landslide victory for God's sake. Twice! No, what is harmful is the vindictive, hyper-vigilant collectivist attitude that persists in a ham-handed attempt at "leveling the playing field." The idea that certain groups of people (blacks, women, gays, etc) need compulsory protection at the expense of other groups (white males), induces a sort of resentment as a response to what is perceived to be a witch hunt. For example, certain events - such as the destruction of Paula Dean for admitting to saying the word "nigger" in the past, or Brendan Eich's dismissal as CEO for his donations against gay marriage - and certain policies - such as affirmative action or the greatly lopsided outcomes of most child custody battles - evoke an understandable, but completely irrational, feeling of resentment towards those groups as a backlash for perceived unfair treatment. It's this "us vs. them" victim mentality that's the problem in mainstream America. That's where the real racist attitudes come from, not some sort of widespread, conscious conclusion that certain groups are intrinsically inferior to others. The answer is not collectivist protections or more anti-racism vigilance, it is to look beyond our superficial differences and to consider all people as individuals with an equal capacity to love and to be loved. Racism is an outdated idea. Let it die on its own.
- ivraatiems 12y ago
  What evidence leads you to believe that it will, in fact, die on its own?
  - pvnick 12y ago
    Racism's trajectory is such that it is quickly disappearing. That is the case even in the deep south where I'm from (this is fairly profound considering our civil war defeat is still a big deal in the minds of many), but rather the racism you do encounter is in response to perceived injustices such as those I listed. Thus the hyper-vigilance perpetuated by the media does more to harm racism's disappearance than to hasten it's natural death. Edit: Also, because racism is illogical. Irrational ideas tend to be replaced by good ones in the "free market" of ideas. There is no reason to beat tolerance into people, simply show show them the compassion and unity that equality leads to, and contrast that with the ridiculous KKK guys in goofy white cone hats and piss-stained bed sheets and let them make up their own mind.
pcthrowaway 12y ago
While Einstein only fully stopped eating animals shortly before his death, there is some indication he also felt uneasy accepting the general attitude on animals as food for some time before that. This is prejudice that that most of us have yet to shake still.
- RivieraKid 12y ago
  It's subjective, I don't feel that eating animals is wrong.
  - pcthrowaway 12y ago
    Do you feel that it would be wrong to kill a healthy dog for food? While I get that morality is subjective, I think people would have said similar things about black people back when Einstein wrote this.
- Igglyboo 12y ago
  That "prejudice" is extremely subjective and has been going on for millions of years.
subdane 12y ago
In addition to the wonderful piece, I enjoyed the fact that he appears to be wearing a bad-assed, black leather jacket in the photo.
desdiv 12y ago
I highly recommend Jane Elliott's "Blue Eyes Brown Eyes" lesson for anyone who have not seen it yet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=uQAmdZvKf6M#t=41 https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=uQ... In any discussion about racism, the stratified-by-race-IQ-chart invariably gets brought up (crtl-f for "itjustdontwork" for its latest rendition in this thread). Jane Elliott's video helped me to find a new perspective on the IQ chart data.
arielm 12y ago
Einstein's simplification of this situation, even though it was made in a time where political correctness wasn't common, is a fresh view that reminds me how important it is to stop pronouncing racism and instead to each do our part in extinguishing it by action.
jxm262 12y ago
love this. "A large part of our attitude toward things is conditioned by opinions and emotions which we unconsciously absorb as children from our environment. In other words, it is tradition—besides inherited aptitudes and qualities—which makes us what we are. We but rarely reflect how relatively small as compared with the powerful influence of tradition is the influence of our conscious thought upon our conduct and convictions" just wow. This gives me alot to reflect on and goes much deeper than racial prejudices. This can be applied to alot of areas in my life. I was one of the top in my high school class for math, and skated through college pretty easily. Came out being kind of cocky then learned pretty quickly how little I actually knew. The past few years have really really given me perspective. Speaking for myself, I seem to grow much faster when I humble myself and acknowledge my areas that need improvement.
- sysk 12y ago
  I was about to quote the same paragraph. It is the one thing in this text that is truly timeless.
queensnake 12y ago
Such self-fondling pabulum around here. If Aristotle can be wrong, so can Einstein. See: IQ data. I bet at least the number of people who posted want to say the same thing, but have refrained from posting. I bet frikkin' Paul Graham thinks the same thing (maybe gentler) - he's alluded to 'inexpressible ideas about race' (paraphrase) in one essay.
- pas 12y ago
  Hm, I might be misinterpreting your "IQ data" pointer, but just to be clear: variance of IQ in groups is much larger than between them.

441 points by juanplusjuan 12y ago

jamesblonde 12y ago

Way ahead of his time

earleybird 12y ago
I believe it is a mistake to think that we're somehow smarter or better than those who have gone before us.
- Retra 12y ago
  Well, we should be. Every day we aren't is a sad day.
- markgarity 12y ago
  As individual human parts perhaps, but as a collective humanity we surely are.

lpsz 12y ago

What, however, can the man of good will do to combat this deeply rooted prejudice? More diversity (in neighborhoods, in workplaces, in schools) would certainly help -- the transition from "us" and "them" to a unified "us." And yet, it's disappointing how segregated America still is today. One fairly in-depth study [1] offers an example of how "today" came to be. (This report is not about any current events, but rather a detailed account of city zoning over a few decades.) [1] http://www.epi.org/publication/making-ferguson/ http://www.epi.org/publication/making-ferguson/

skylan_q 12y ago
More diversity (in neighborhoods, in workplaces, in schools) would certainly help Maybe instead of forcing segregation, or forcing integration, freedom of association could be tried?
- moron4hire 12y ago
  Unfortunately, once communities start out segregated, they stay segregated.
  - itjustdontwork 12y ago
    Unfortunately Why is it unfortunate? No white person in their right mind would honestly prefer to live in a half-black community over an all-white community. Sure, they may say they would to save political face, or to look benevolent or "tolerant" and progressive, but deep down? No. The difference in crime rates and quality of life is just astounding. To prefer to live amongst more blacks is to prefer to be more at risk of having a violent (or other) crime committed against you and having your property values diminish greatly. Yes there are lots of bad white people out there but they're much less concentrated within the race.
    - moron4hire 12y ago
      I think you need to take a look at crime statistics again. They're income-based, not race-based. In the United States, poor often also means minority, but it's not race that makes inner cities violent. It's destitution, and the desperation it causes.
      - yummyfajitas 12y ago
        I'm not remotely defending his thesis (and my life choices contradict his claims pretty well) but you are simply wrong about the crime stats. To choose one category of crime, blacks make up about half of of murderers. However, there are twice as many poor whites as there are poor blacks. http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2012/crime-in-the-u.s.-2012/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_3_murder_offenders_by_age_sex_and_race_2012.xls http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2012/c... http://kff.org/other/state-indicator/poverty-rate-by-raceethnicity/ http://kff.org/other/state-indicator/poverty-rate-by-raceeth... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States#Race_and_ethnicity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_Sta... Further, international comparisons suggest you are wrong about American-style "destitution" causing crime. I know many professionals (I live in India) who are far more "destitute" than any poor American (at least in terms of goods and services they can afford). Strangely they don't turn to crime at anywhere near the rates Americans (of any race) do.
rogerallen 12y ago
if you haven't seen this, there's even some math to explain how "today" came to be. http://ncase.me/polygons/ http://ncase.me/polygons/
- swatow 12y ago
  Mathematical models can be used to argue for a wide range of viewpoints. You could also write a model where people have different innate preferences over the lifestyle they want to lead, and so self-sorting is an unambiguously good thing. I understand that everyone wants "math" to be on their side, but it's not really mathematics that is doing the work here, it's your assumptions.
  - moron4hire 12y ago
    Did you play with it at all? It's somewhat flawed--for example, boosting the "prejudice" level to > 85% often leads to diverse, if not stable, communities. But I think it demonstrates the concept well. If a community starts out segregated, it takes being actively displeased with the lack of diversity to get it to change, because people, without a reason to move, won't move.
    - swatow 12y ago
      No I didn't. My point was that when you expand or change the model, you open up a whole new range of possibilities. I'm not particularly interested in how the model is parametrized or what parameters lead to what result.
      - moron4hire 12y ago
        Again, the point was not the model, but the story.
        swatow 12y ago
        If the point is the story, what purpose does the model/simulation serve? In this case, the best that the model does is prove that the story is internally consistent. It doesn't prove that the story has any relationship to reality, because there are hundreds of other stories about segregation that you could tell, each with their own model.
itg 12y ago
"More diversity (in neighborhoods, in workplaces, in schools) would certainly help" I'm not so sure. I went to a very diverse and large high school in NJ and what ends up happening is self segregation. All the ethnic groups would mostly end up hanging out with their own types.
- shaded2 12y ago
  That definately happens but is an underlying cause. I'm not sure what it is. I've lived in other countries where this natural segregation does not happen.
  - learc83 12y ago
    I'd be interested in hearing about what countries you're talking about and the percentages of total population that these integrated groups make up.
  - semi-extrinsic 12y ago
    There's a fascinating example in computational studies that partly explains this: if you have people of different groups moving around randomly on a lattice, even a very slight preference (51%/49%) for being next to people in the same group as oneself ends up leading to a self-segregated pattern. EDIT: see e.g http://ccl.northwestern.edu/netlogo/models/Segregation http://ccl.northwestern.edu/netlogo/models/Segregation
- LukeShu 12y ago
  I also went to a very diverse highschool (recently; class of 2012), and saw the same self-segregation. However, when I saw the census dotmap that was on here a while ago[1], it was obvious that even though the school district was diverse, each of the neighborhoods was clearly a "${race} neighborhood". I'm willing to believe that the self segregation in-school reflected the segregation outside of school; that more diverse schools and neighborhoods might solve this. [1]: http://bmander.com/dotmap/index.html http://bmander.com/dotmap/index.html though it seems to be down now
- learc83 12y ago
revscat 12y ago
I believe a greater benefit would occur were we to have more mixed race couples, and with it the offspring that would tend to be produced by those relationships.
- cJ0th 12y ago
  absolutely. More generally you could say that people from different races need to have something in common to get along with each other. Or even more general: People need to have something in common to have a healthy relationship. I think the main problem is that most people lack a true passion for anything. Even many people of the same race don't get along well because they have no real interest in anything. If they don't even share the same race (i.e. have even more different properties), shit is about to get real. Based on that theory I would guess that you see less racism amongst hackers, musicians, athletes etc. Humans may have made great progress technologically. But having neat digital watches didn't help society as a whole to grow intellectually to the same extend.
- anomalous 12y ago
  Although, this sort of integration was encouraged and took place in Brazil and the mixed-race Brazilian offspring of today still seemingly and disproportionately prefer to be categorized as 'white' based on year-to-year census results.
  - JetSpiegel 12y ago
    Stopping putting the race questions in the census would certainly help. Who cares about that? Just having that question is an implicit assumption that race matters.
- leephillips 12y ago
  Or, as Sen. Bulworth says in the movie of the same name, "Everybody just gotta keep fuckin' everybody 'til they're all the same color."
- seekingtruth 12y ago
  So, literally genocide.
FrankenPC 12y ago
Yes. But, due to powerful cultural influences, humans will tend to want to group together for comfort purposes. Diversity implies fractured culture. Humans are loathe to fracture their sense of community through shared culture. I'm going with good, fair, and free mass education. All the way to college. If everyone gets the same level of education then no one will FEEL out of place in any culture as they will be aware of common cultural differences through education. Good education repairs a LOT of social ills.
angrybits 12y ago
An increase in diversity is a goal, it's not a course of action. We should be trying to root out whatever the underlying causes are that lead us to segregate ourselves into the groups that we end up in. Forced de-segregation (as in the case of bussing kids around in public school districts) is only temporary, as the people who want to be in their groups will take action to achieve that end. For whatever it is worth, I think income inequality (between rich and poor, all races) is probably the biggest inhibitor to this problem. Motivated-yet-poor people cannot easily break out of their groups, with no money for college and (alot of times) a criminal record preventing them from enlisting in the service. If you have resources you have choices, and the poor have very little in the way of choice. And the affluent who do have a choice will almost always make the choice to not live among those who have nothing to lose, whatever their color may be.
- saraid216 12y ago
  > An increase in diversity is a goal, it's not a course of action. Yes, actually, it is. It's fine to say you disagree with the course of action because you believe it is immoral or ineffective, but it is absolutely a course of action. > We should be trying to root out whatever the underlying causes are that lead us to segregate ourselves into the groups that we end up in. One of these causes is "that's how it has always been". How would you propose to root out this one?
- moskie 12y ago
  Why not both? I think we can work to address both the symptoms and the disease in tandem. Treat the symptom of segregation by implementing programs or initiatives that actively promote diversity. Also, root out the underlying cause by.... doing lots of various things over the course of generations to convince/teach people that racism is wrong. Treating the symptom helps alleviate the problems experienced by people of color who are alive today. Addressing the cause could take a long, long time.
itjustdontwork 12y ago
More diversity (in neighborhoods, in workplaces, in schools) would certainly help Never heard the term "there goes the neighborhood"? America is segregated today not because of white people, as in fact black people are far more prejudiced and racist than white people (and there is mounds of evidence to support this). But rather because you have a town thats nice, and then black people start moving in and the neighborhood town or city quickly starts going south, fast, almost without fail. Why? Because blacks make up 12% of the US population but commit half of all murders and more than half of all robberies. It's really amazing when you look at the crime statistics out there, and the amazingly consistent correlation between the percentage of black people in a certain area, and how (un)safe and (un)pleasant that area is to live in. There will never be a unified "us" as long as a significant portion of black people continue to behave the way they do and force white people to flee to safer ground. Plain and simple. The only people who truly support that "diversity" baloney are either people who have never actually had to live with it, or have something to gain from it politically or financially. Abraham Lincoln supported black colonization for a good reason; unfortunately nobody likes to talk about that when they talk about him though. Obviously forced colonization is a stupid and immoral idea, but voluntary segregation is, unfortunately, what will end up being best for us until more black people start getting their act together. EDIT: Truth hurts I see. I guess it's much easier for most people to hide comments that offend them rather than responding with an intelligent counterpoint or pointing out where you think they're "wrong".
protonfish 12y ago
Forced integration is a terrible idea that is proven to not work. It is the equivalent of locking enemies in a room and hoping they work it all out peacefully.
lexcorvus 12y ago
More diversity…would certainly help It's far from certain. For example, Harvard social scientist Robert Putnam has (tentatively and, I think, somewhat reluctantly) suggested the opposite. Here's an interview he did for National Public Radio: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=12802663 http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1280266... Money quote: Social scientist Robert Putnam, probably best known for his work "Bowling Alone," on the decline of civic engagement, wanted to know does diversity have an impact on our sense of community? His recent finding suggest that diversity might not make us stronger. In fact, it might just be the opposite. It might make us less inclined to participate in civic life, at least in the short term.
scobar 12y ago
I think Einstein's very next sentence, "He must have the courage to set an example by word and deed, and must watch lest his children become influenced by this racial bias." is great advice. The faster we demonstrate to our younger generations that our erroneous tradition must be corrected, the faster the goals of more diversity and elimination of racial bias can be achieved.
NoMoreNicksLeft 12y ago
> More diversity If I were to ask, "what can a man of good will do to combat tornado calamities", would you respond with a "more air temperature homogeneity would certainly help"? We can't reasonably engineer or create "neighborhood diversity". There are some policies that have tried to accomplish this, and they fail miserably. The "diversity" ends up artificial and hollow, and does nothing for prejudice. In some cases it seems to amplify it. > the transition from "us" and "them" to a unified "us." There can never be an "us" when we're talking about the 300 million people in the United States. There can't even be an "us" if you're talking about the 8 million in New York City, or the 500,000 in Atlanta. Human beings are limited in their ability to form an "us", and it's in the low hundreds.
seekingtruth 12y ago
Show me a place on Earth where decreasing the ethnic/cultural homogeneity has improved community cohesion and rapport.
laofmoonster 12y ago
What do you make of this map, then? It shows scores on an Implicit Association Test, measuring subconscious racism by white people against black people. http://img.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/files/2014/12/Race-IAT-score-map_White6.jpg http://img.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/files/2014/12/R... There is a liberal-conservative correlation on the map, a but far stronger correlation is the racial makeup of the state. The "deep roots" of racism don't seem to go away with exposure. Other empirical data, such as Robert Putnam's work mentioned in another comment, suggest just the opposite.

mariodiana 12y ago

The thing I like is the reference to Aristotle. Today, there are some people who are too quick to brand anyone who disagrees with their enlightened views as a "moron" or worse. There's no winning hearts and minds that way. It's better to gently point out the mistakes of those who are otherwise worthy of respect, in the hopes that this will spur others towards self-reflection, than to castigate and put people on the defensive. We could use more of that.

wutangson1 12y ago
Great point, even considering that Einstein seems to be taking Aristotle and ancient Greek dogma totally out of context. Perhaps, as was and is a tradition in academic circles, he was advocating that contemporary scientists were in fact better and more enlightened than the Greeks. Or, maybe it was a reaction against Hitler's fascination with the ancient Greeks. Yet, Aristotle did not present a clear belief system on slavery, especially considering that even Socrates dialogue Meno, he makes the case for the equality and infinite capacity of all humankind.
- Locke1689 12y ago
  Meno was written by Plato.
- lotsofmangos 12y ago
  Plato wrote Meno and Aristotle presented a very clear belief system on slavery in Book I, Chapters 3 through 7 of The Politics and in Book 7 of the Nicomachean Ethics. "But is there any one thus intended by nature to be a slave, and for whom such a condition is expedient and right, or rather is not all slavery a violation of nature?" "There is no difficulty in answering this question, on grounds both of reason and of fact. For that some should rule and others be ruled is a thing not only necessary, but expedient; from the hour of their birth, some are marked out for subjection, others for rule." http://classics.mit.edu/Aristotle/politics.1.one.html http://classics.mit.edu/Aristotle/politics.1.one.html edit - mind you, he also had a tendency to write stuff like: "If a woman looks at a highly polished mirror during the menstrual period, the surface of the mirror becomes like a blood shot cloud", so it isn't as though the slavery thing is a small unfortunate oversight in some otherwise wise philosophy. If you forget for a minute that you are dealing with Aristotle, he is consistently quite considerably bonkers, and seemingly just winging it through a lot of his writing, though there is plenty of genius in there as well.

blazespin 12y ago

I was always impressed by his stand against zionism. http://www.newdemocracyworld.org/old/einstein.htm http://www.newdemocracyworld.org/old/einstein.htm

swatow 12y ago
Interesting that his views on race in America are now mainstream, while his views on Zionism are rarely voiced outside the far left or far right. It seems to me that his views are based on a consistent application of principals, while American politics isn't.
- Retra 12y ago
  Most mainstream Americans' political principles are variations on "defend your side at all costs." An ideology without a (real) problem to solve is a very dangerous thing.
  - vacri 12y ago
    Viewing the US from the outside, it really is puzzling that in that land of freedom - where the ability of the individual to express themself is prized above all others - happens to be a place where people are pigeonholed by which one of two political parties they vote for, and it's frequently considered to be all you need to know to know everything about a person's opinions. "Well he would say that, he's a Democrat" kind of thing.
    - deleted 12y ago
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josh_fyi 12y ago
He supported Labor Zionism. Like other Labor Zionists, he opposed the right wing of Zionism. Also, like other so-called cultural Zionists, he was more concerned with establishing a homeland where Jews could express their culture, but was less concerned with having a sovereign state. Indeed at that time, the land was a "mandate" under British rule, neither Jewish nor Arab. (In those days, many lands were ruled by European empires. The notion that each non-European nation needed its own state only solidified later, partially under Israel's example.) http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2009/12/how-einstein-divided-americas-jews/307763/?single_page=true http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2009/12/how-eins...

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aik 12y ago

Very interesting. There are some other articles by Einstein there as well. The Science and Religion one is particularly interesting: http://www.onbeing.org/program/einstein039s-god-einstein039s-ethics/extra/einstein-science-and-religion-1940/1986 http://www.onbeing.org/program/einstein039s-god-einstein039s...

fsloth 12y ago

I am humbled by the sincerity and humanity of this writing. Thanks for sharing.

kroy 12y ago

This is really fascinating. This part particularly struck me: "[Americans'] sense of equality and human dignity is mainly limited to men of white skins. Even among these there are prejudices of which I as a Jew am clearly conscious" As a non-black person of color, this has been my access point to issues of race and oppression. Thinking about the (relatively) minor prejudices and indignities I've experienced made me a lot more receptive to the idea that things just aren't right for a lot of people. That oppression is real. And it's also made me aware of the privilege that I do enjoy as a college-educated male who's the son of college educated parents. This is a very prescient and relevant piece by Einstein. I'm glad it's on HN!

washedup 12y ago
Couldn't agree more that the opposition is real. I have witnessed much of it living in a divided city like Chicago. The most difficult question about it is what we can do to shift government attention and resources? Not in the form of police cameras, squad cars, or militarization, but in the form of education and infrastructure projects. This is only a small part of the question, however. A bigger issue is not where the government spends money, but zoning laws, tax incentives to move to certain areas, and other laws that have been built up and influenced over time to create the situation we have today. People have been noticing this and pointing it out for a long, long time. Surely Einstein would observe similar treatments as well, particularly because of his fresh perspective.
- doomlaser 12y ago
  One of the biggest peaceful protests on this issue is happening today, across the nation, but you wouldn't know it from the Hacker News frontpage. It's been troubling seeing any links about the Ferguson and Eric Garner protests wiped from Hacker News before they attract very many upvotes. The issues being debated encompass government action, fundamental technology and privacy rights, as well as race, but they're being ignored here for the most part and I don't understand exactly why. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/14/us/thousands-march-in-washington-to-protest-deaths-by-police.html http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/14/us/thousands-march-in-wash... http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2014/dec/13/police-killings-protests-washington-new-york-live-coverage http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2014/dec/13/police-k...

sethbannon 12y ago

"I can escape the feeling of complicity in it only by speaking out." Sadly on the matter of unequal race relations these words ring nearly as true in 2014 as they did in 1946.

xxxyy 12y ago

This is all nice, but lacks facts. I would like to point out a few numbers: 1) During the Atlantic slave trade period there were around 10 million African slaves sold. Around 500k went to the US, which accounts for 5% [1]. Where are the successors of the remaining 95%? Maybe America was not that bad after all? 2) It is a matter of fact that there is a statistical connection between race and learning skills [2] 3) I obviously don't have to mention correlations between race and crime. People are racist because the facts justify it. It is a matter of applying Bayesian statistics to every day life. [1] http://www.theroot.com/articles/history/2012/10/how_many_slaves_came_to_america_fact_vs_fiction.html http://www.theroot.com/articles/history/2012/10/how_many_sla... [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_achievement_gap_in_the_United_States http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_achievement_gap_in_the_U...

revscat 12y ago

What makes this discussion so much more frustrating today is that the racial biases are inherent in the system. While the laws are structured to be. Entrap, their application is decidedly not. While I, a white male, choose to do as Einstein here suggests and live a life of example, and teach my children the destructiveness of racism, my actions do not directly help those in my country who are suffering from official and unofficial forms of discrimination. I want to do more, but... "What can men do in the face of such reckless hate?"

palimpsests 12y ago
I think this starts to address your question: http://qz.com/250701/12-things-white-people-can-do-now-because-ferguson/ http://qz.com/250701/12-things-white-people-can-do-now-becau... And I think this article is really helpful for perspective: http://www.timwise.org/2014/12/we-dont-need-nice-we-need-justice-racism-and-the-moral-blindness-of-white-america/ http://www.timwise.org/2014/12/we-dont-need-nice-we-need-jus...

phazelift 12y ago

Amazingly great thinker with a great heart too, we are so in need of people like him..

33223332323 12y ago

> The ancient Greeks also had slaves. They were not Negroes but white men who had been taken captive in war. There could be no talk of racial differences. As Slavic I find this inaccurate and bit offensive :-)

learc83 12y ago
Most people in America would consider a Slavic person white. There is no scientific definition of "white", it is a social construct that has changed to be more inclusive as various groups integrated into American society.
- 33223332323 12y ago
  It does not even compute...
- kzrdude 12y ago
  What is weird from my perspective is how the races as concepts still are accepted and used, even though they are ambiguous and deeply problematic. For example those that have the "pleasure" of hearing "but you are white" will understand that there is a scale of whiteness and you've just been graded on that scale.
  - throwaway90446 12y ago
    Unless and until our recent era of mass global travel results in a highly genetically uniform species, we will continue to have population groups that share allele groupings differently than other population groups which share different allele groupings.
vixen99 12y ago
A bit offensive? Why?
- xxxyy 12y ago
  Because there are racial-alike tensions within the Caucasian people, such as Nazi/Jews, West/Slavic, Protestant/Catholic.

vinceguidry 12y ago

Anyone interested in this topic should read Karen Armstrong's Fields of Blood http://www.amazon.com/Fields-Blood-Religion-History-Violence/dp/0307957047/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1418494474&sr=8-1&keywords=fields+of+blood http://www.amazon.com/Fields-Blood-Religion-History-Violence... The first chapter gives a very good rationale for where hatred and subjugation of the 'other' comes from and the book traces how this kind of socialized violence evolved over the ages.

iamdave 12y ago
Two hours from hopping on a ten hour train ride, thanks for the reading material!

vixen99 12y ago

Relevant to the subject Einstein addresses I strongly recommend the writing of Thomas Sowell. http://www.tsowell.com/ http://www.tsowell.com/

mikeyouse 12y ago
Sowell has some interesting things to say but it's mixed in with the heavy portion of nonsensical wharrgarbl.. He spends a lot of time calling for the bombing of Iran (so that the US doesn't surrender to them after they nuke us of course), claiming that Obama hates America (going so far as to compare to him to Hitler for creating an oil spill fund), advocating bizarre Federal Reserve conspiracy theories, and all sorts of other strange ideas. It's hard to take the rest of what he says seriously with all that baggage..

markgarity 12y ago

"It would be foolish to despise tradition. But with our growing self-consciousness and increasing intelligence we must begin to control tradition and assume a critical attitude toward it, if human relations are ever to change for the better. We must try to recognize what in our accepted tradition is damaging to our fate and dignity—and shape our lives accordingly." Key takeaway, in my opinion, and this extends beyond racial prejudices.

bostik 12y ago
What you quoted above gives credence that another quote attributed to Einstein actually is his. I can even recognise the tone in the segment about Aristotle and his views about slavery. The quote in question? "Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." - Albert Einstein Even if it was misattributed, it's still one hell of a motto to live by.
- Fishkins 12y ago
  That quote was correctly attributed to Einstein (although it's unclear whether we used those exact words) http://quoteinvestigator.com/2014/04/29/common-sense/ http://quoteinvestigator.com/2014/04/29/common-sense/

schimmy_changa 12y ago

If this moves you, follow Einstein's logic to today's world and join in the struggle. There are marches today, consider this your invitation! SF: https://www.facebook.com/events/675598982556580/ https://www.facebook.com/events/675598982556580/ Oakland: https://www.facebook.com/events/858052834217501/ https://www.facebook.com/events/858052834217501/ NYC: https://www.facebook.com/events/959630214065046/ https://www.facebook.com/events/959630214065046/ Boston: https://www.facebook.com/events/1559794327598726/ https://www.facebook.com/events/1559794327598726/ (and I'm sure there's one near where you live as well)

schimmy_changa 12y ago
I am not sure why this is being downvoted... People are asking above "What, however, can the man of good will do to combat this deeply rooted prejudice?". One prong of this prejudice is the structure of our justice system, and participating in these marches can help that.
- calibraxis 12y ago
  It's downvoted because it's currently the most serious and rational post on actually solving oppression. Rather than musing abstractly about some dead white scientist talking about blacks. (While taking a break from making money for investors/bosses.) Speaking of prominent white activist intellectuals, here's Chomsky's view on Einstein: "Compare Russell and Einstein, two leading figures, roughly the same generation. They agreed on the grave dangers facing humanity, but chose different ways to respond. Einstein responded by living a very comfortable life in Princeton and dedicating himself to research that he loved, taking a few moments for an occasional oracular statement. Russell responded by leading demonstrations and getting himself dragged off by the cops, writing extensively on the problems of the day, organizing war crimes trials, etc. The result? Russell was and is reviled and condemned, Einstein is admired as a saint. Should that surprise us? Not at all."
  - n72 12y ago
    "some dead white scientist" You do realize Einstein was a Jew who was forced to leave Germany because of Nazism, right?

nobrains 12y ago

All men are created equal. Except Blacks. And Muslims. And non-Americans. And Native Americans.

itjustdontwork 12y ago
Tell us something we don't all already know? It's a fact that rich black students on average have a lower IQ and do worse on tests than the poorest of white students. Just as men are different from women, in many ways, blacks are different from whites in many ways. There's no point in trying to hide from it.
- audioburn 12y ago
  >It's a fact that rich black students on average have a lower IQ and do worse on tests than the poorest of white students. Citation needed
  - lexcorvus 12y ago
    There's a lot of data on this subject; if you're actually interested in evaluating it as a scientific hypothesis (rather than dismissing it as heresy), this should get you started: http://isteve.blogspot.com/2014/03/2008-sat-scores-by-race-by-income.html http://isteve.blogspot.com/2014/03/2008-sat-scores-by-race-b... The study in question involves the SAT, not formal IQ tests, but the two are highly correlated. [1] You'll also see that the original claim isn't quite supported, as the poorest group of whites scored slightly worse than the richest group of blacks, but the study does broadly support the conclusion that the poorest whites outscore all but the richest blacks. [1]: See, e.g., http://www.psychologicalscience.org/pdf/ps/Frey.pdf?origin=publication_detail http://www.psychologicalscience.org/pdf/ps/Frey.pdf?origin=p.... "These studies indicate that the SAT is mainly a test of g [general intelligence]."
  - cityboy0 12y ago
    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c6/1995-SAT-vs-Income-Education.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c6/1995-SAT... Plus page 41 and 44 of this PDF: http://nyulawreview.org/sites/default/files/pdf/NYULawReview-72-1-Wightman.pdf http://nyulawreview.org/sites/default/files/pdf/NYULawReview... Plus the first few sentences here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence#United_States_test_scores https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence#United_S... As well as many more. By the way guys, downvoting and flagkilling comments to silence opinions (that are backed up by facts and statistics) that hurt your feelings? Lame.

moron4hire 12y ago

Racism will continue to be a problem as long as it serves as a useful distraction for the people to prevent us from really scrutinizing the ruling class and the complete disparity between the goals of the super-rich people and the needs of the rest of us who are just trying to get by. Racism, sexism, homophobia, drugs, guns, taxes, war, spying, all of it are just distractions because whether the issue goes left or right won't matter to most people. What really matters is whether or not people can feed their children, have a roof over their heads, have something meaningful to do with their time, be warm in the winter, be free from violence. These are the things that matter, but we're all caught up in bikeshedding over how to get there. And in the process, a very small group of people get to come in and unilaterally take action to fill their own pockets. Everything else that happens is the rest of us playing Lord of the Flies. Isms will end when the majority takes up the cause of the minority, because in actuality, it's their/our cause, too.

_almosnow 12y ago
Totally agree with your view of how things work on a higher scale. Isms will always exist because not all of us are equal and we will never be; and I'm not saying that with a discriminating tone, what I mean is that you have to be completely retarded (excuse me, but it's true) to actually believe and state that we are all the same. We all like different stuff, we all have different ways to achieve our goals, we even have (VERY) different moral foundations to asses whether something should be right or wrong. On the other hand, most of us are used to live under the terrible premise to puts oneself (and thus, its kind) before others. Put these two facts together and everything that has happened (and will continue to happen) throughout our history becomes obvious.

lexcorvus 12y ago

Many a sincere person will answer: "Our attitude towards Negroes is the result of unfavorable experiences which we have had by living side by side with Negroes in this country. They are not our equals in intelligence, sense of responsibility, reliability." I am firmly convinced that whoever believes this suffers from a fatal misconception. Although it has clear political implications, the last part of the quote-within-a-quote ("They are not our equals…") is a scientific hypothesis. Does it strike you that people who take the opposite view of Einstein's—or who even consider its possibility—are treated as merely mistaken? As suffering from a misconception? No—they are treated with opprobrium, condemned with epithets (racist, fascist, etc.), and purged from civil society. No reasonable person denies that the ancestors of slaves were mistreated, but as an explanation for group differences this is not mutually exclusive with cultural or biological factors that may have nothing to do with past oppression. Unfortunately, this subject is not treated as a scientific matter—it has become a political fight. Einstein appears to be "ahead of his time" not because of the triumph of his scientific arguments but because his political allies have been consistently advancing.

nyolfen 12y ago
oh noo the racists will be called racist, such material oppression
- cityboy0 12y ago
  So what you're saying is facts don't matter and should be ignored and are "racist" if they come from evil straight white males and put non-whites in a bad light? Interesting. How righteous. "First they came for the people who tried to have a scientific discussion about race... but I did not speak out, because the scientific findings offended me and invalidated my world view."
lotsofmangos 12y ago
It was ever a political fight. That's what happens when you end up neighbors with the great great grandson of the bloke your great great granddaddy paid to have kidnapped and shipped to the country as a piece of equipment. Sure you can argue over the details about what their family have been like to be around in the intervening time, but don't be surprised if the conversation gets back around to the question of who exactly kidnapped who in the first place. Is pretty pointless to winge about it being political.

myownbusiness 12y ago

Here's the truth that you young programmers aren't going to like. Einstein was a closet socialist/communist who was hugely overrated as a physicist by the media precisely for his left-leaning politics. "Civil rights" is a nation-splitting tactic that was deeply funded and driven by COMINTERN from the beginning from NAACP to the Scottsboro trials and all the way up to the "protests" in 2014. You folks have been taught your entire lives by a school system similarly deliberately subverted by leftists (see GAMAY for a well-written example) with teachers and professors with viewpoints that average more leftwing than 90% of the country. The sentiment I'm expressing has been dismissed by your "authorities" as propaganda, lies, redbaiting, etc for decades. But, when _hard_ evidence proving these things has come to light, whether the Pumpkin Papers or Venona or redacted files on Michael King Jr, folks just shrug and pretend that's in the past, doesn't matter, or was laudable. Which is it? Is it a LIE that folks like Einstein were crypto-Reds or is it a TRUTH that doesn't matter because you want the revolution? More importantly, when, exactly, are you "millennials" going to think for yourselves, rather than turning "hacker news" into the bastard love child of Pravda and Slashdot?

myownbusiness 12y ago
Show that I'm wrong, downvoting coward.
- tokipin 12y ago
  any one of Einstein's contributions in his miracle year would have put him in the history books. to say his contributions to science have been exaggerated is incorrect. he really was that good, whether you like that fact or not.
vidarh 12y ago
I find it absolutely hilarious that you believe that Comintern - an organization that was dissolved in 1943 - is still "funding and driving" civil rights struggles. As someone who used to be active in a party that used to be a part of the Comintern, and that spent a lot of time during my youth to try to build support for re-establishing an International, and who learned in the process there are about a dozen "Fourth Internationals" (Comintern was the Third), a few Fifths, and at least a couple of Sixths, none of which acknowledge each other, all of which are ludicrously impotent tiny little groups, the idea of some shadowy remnant of the Third actually still existing and having the power and will to do something good for a change is some world class tin foil hattery. I also love how you try to pretend that it was a secret that Einstein was left wing, yet at the same time try to push the idea that the supposedly left wing US press (... as a European, the very idea of a left wing US press is comedy gold) were exaggerating his worth as a physicist because of his secret left wing views. By all means, keep on going. It's exactly this over the top lunacy that have changed US attitudes to socialism - the rate of change the last 20 years have been astounding. Maybe in another 20 your political landscape will start to approach the European.

mathu7 12y ago

this is the part of Einstein's legacy that I wish more people knew about

UhUhUhUh 12y ago

Bottom line, then and now, to be a racist you need either be stupid or have serious psychological issues or a combination of both. On a side note, I always admired Einstein for his tremendous ability to abstract problems. I believe he is the co-inventor of the "thought experiment" with Mach. You can always feel this ability in his writings.

peterfirefly 12y ago
Galileo has a brilliant thought experiment in De Motu about heavy and light falling bodies, possibly connected with a string. I think Bacon (both Roger and Francis) also used thought experiments to great effect.

pvnick 12y ago

I hope what I have to say is not as controversial as I fear, but I don't think that individual racist beliefs are as big a problem as we have been told. To look at somebody and consciously judge them to be inferior based on their skin color is so outdated and obsolete, that those who do so are fringe members of society who are typically elderly and either changing their mindset or dying out. We elected a black president in a landslide victory for God's sake. Twice! No, what is harmful is the vindictive, hyper-vigilant collectivist attitude that persists in a ham-handed attempt at "leveling the playing field." The idea that certain groups of people (blacks, women, gays, etc) need compulsory protection at the expense of other groups (white males), induces a sort of resentment as a response to what is perceived to be a witch hunt. For example, certain events - such as the destruction of Paula Dean for admitting to saying the word "nigger" in the past, or Brendan Eich's dismissal as CEO for his donations against gay marriage - and certain policies - such as affirmative action or the greatly lopsided outcomes of most child custody battles - evoke an understandable, but completely irrational, feeling of resentment towards those groups as a backlash for perceived unfair treatment. It's this "us vs. them" victim mentality that's the problem in mainstream America. That's where the real racist attitudes come from, not some sort of widespread, conscious conclusion that certain groups are intrinsically inferior to others. The answer is not collectivist protections or more anti-racism vigilance, it is to look beyond our superficial differences and to consider all people as individuals with an equal capacity to love and to be loved. Racism is an outdated idea. Let it die on its own.

ivraatiems 12y ago
What evidence leads you to believe that it will, in fact, die on its own?
- pvnick 12y ago
  Racism's trajectory is such that it is quickly disappearing. That is the case even in the deep south where I'm from (this is fairly profound considering our civil war defeat is still a big deal in the minds of many), but rather the racism you do encounter is in response to perceived injustices such as those I listed. Thus the hyper-vigilance perpetuated by the media does more to harm racism's disappearance than to hasten it's natural death. Edit: Also, because racism is illogical. Irrational ideas tend to be replaced by good ones in the "free market" of ideas. There is no reason to beat tolerance into people, simply show show them the compassion and unity that equality leads to, and contrast that with the ridiculous KKK guys in goofy white cone hats and piss-stained bed sheets and let them make up their own mind.

pcthrowaway 12y ago

While Einstein only fully stopped eating animals shortly before his death, there is some indication he also felt uneasy accepting the general attitude on animals as food for some time before that. This is prejudice that that most of us have yet to shake still.

RivieraKid 12y ago
It's subjective, I don't feel that eating animals is wrong.
- pcthrowaway 12y ago
  Do you feel that it would be wrong to kill a healthy dog for food? While I get that morality is subjective, I think people would have said similar things about black people back when Einstein wrote this.
Igglyboo 12y ago
That "prejudice" is extremely subjective and has been going on for millions of years.

subdane 12y ago

In addition to the wonderful piece, I enjoyed the fact that he appears to be wearing a bad-assed, black leather jacket in the photo.

desdiv 12y ago

I highly recommend Jane Elliott's "Blue Eyes Brown Eyes" lesson for anyone who have not seen it yet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=uQAmdZvKf6M#t=41 https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=uQ... In any discussion about racism, the stratified-by-race-IQ-chart invariably gets brought up (crtl-f for "itjustdontwork" for its latest rendition in this thread). Jane Elliott's video helped me to find a new perspective on the IQ chart data.

arielm 12y ago

Einstein's simplification of this situation, even though it was made in a time where political correctness wasn't common, is a fresh view that reminds me how important it is to stop pronouncing racism and instead to each do our part in extinguishing it by action.

jxm262 12y ago

love this. "A large part of our attitude toward things is conditioned by opinions and emotions which we unconsciously absorb as children from our environment. In other words, it is tradition—besides inherited aptitudes and qualities—which makes us what we are. We but rarely reflect how relatively small as compared with the powerful influence of tradition is the influence of our conscious thought upon our conduct and convictions" just wow. This gives me alot to reflect on and goes much deeper than racial prejudices. This can be applied to alot of areas in my life. I was one of the top in my high school class for math, and skated through college pretty easily. Came out being kind of cocky then learned pretty quickly how little I actually knew. The past few years have really really given me perspective. Speaking for myself, I seem to grow much faster when I humble myself and acknowledge my areas that need improvement.

sysk 12y ago
I was about to quote the same paragraph. It is the one thing in this text that is truly timeless.

queensnake 12y ago

Such self-fondling pabulum around here. If Aristotle can be wrong, so can Einstein. See: IQ data. I bet at least the number of people who posted want to say the same thing, but have refrained from posting. I bet frikkin' Paul Graham thinks the same thing (maybe gentler) - he's alluded to 'inexpressible ideas about race' (paraphrase) in one essay.

pas 12y ago
Hm, I might be misinterpreting your "IQ data" pointer, but just to be clear: variance of IQ in groups is much larger than between them.