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You can state those things all you like, in as large a font as you like, but it doesn't stop people from comparing languages based on the benchmarks game. It's

by dbaupp 12y ago

You can state those things all you like, in as large a font as you like, but it doesn't stop people from comparing languages based on the benchmarks game. It's magical thinking to say otherwise: just because something doesn't claim to be X (or claims to not be X) doesn't stop popular opinion from thinking X. Maybe popular opinion is wrong, but it exists and it's what we have to contend with. e: random recent example of someone doing this sort of comparison: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8743698 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8743698

igouy 12y ago
>>… but it doesn't stop people from comparing languages based on the benchmarks game.<< How could it? Some kind-of black magic? The benchmarks game is just a resource. In the example you provided a discussion is taking place, and some opinions are being challenged.
- dbaupp 12y ago
  A few comments up you are saying that Steve's problems with the benchmarks game are invalid and the game isn't considered for the sort of comparison Steve (and many others) dislike because it says all over the website that > These are not the only compilers and interpreters. These are not the only programs that could be written. These are not the only tasks that could be solved. These are just 10 tiny examples. etc. But now you are saying that obviously people will do naive comparisons using the benchmarks game. This validates the dislike of widely publicised one-dimensional benchmarks like the benchmarks game (NB this applies to a lot of benchmarks on the internet, the benchmarks game is just a particularly famous example, please don't get too defensive again). Sure a discussion is taking place, but essentially any discussion about the benchmark game degenerates into either an argument about why the benchmark game doesn't cause one-dimensional comparisons (with the pro-Benchmarks-Game side consistently being overly defensive), or an argument about why using every unsafe corner of language X to basically mimic the fastest C program is perfectly reasonable, idiomatic and common in the real world.
  - igouy 12y ago
    >>A few comments up you are saying that … isn't considered for the sort of comparison …<< Please quote my words that you claim say that.
    - dbaupp 12y ago
      > 1) That might be a credible criticism if the benchmarks game claimed to be some kind of exhaustive comparison. (I.e. literally your paragraph before the thing I quoted in my comment just above.)
      - igouy 12y ago
        Those words do not say that there are no people who "will do naive comparisons using the benchmarks game". Those words say that they do so in-spite of what's shown on the benchmarks game website, not because of what's shown.
  - igouy 12y ago
    >>…any discussion about the benchmark game degenerates into…<< Given the comments you have already made, that seems to be a self fulfilling prophesy.

by dbaupp 12y ago

igouy 12y ago

>>… but it doesn't stop people from comparing languages based on the benchmarks game.<< How could it? Some kind-of black magic? The benchmarks game is just a resource. In the example you provided a discussion is taking place, and some opinions are being challenged.

dbaupp 12y ago
A few comments up you are saying that Steve's problems with the benchmarks game are invalid and the game isn't considered for the sort of comparison Steve (and many others) dislike because it says all over the website that > These are not the only compilers and interpreters. These are not the only programs that could be written. These are not the only tasks that could be solved. These are just 10 tiny examples. etc. But now you are saying that obviously people will do naive comparisons using the benchmarks game. This validates the dislike of widely publicised one-dimensional benchmarks like the benchmarks game (NB this applies to a lot of benchmarks on the internet, the benchmarks game is just a particularly famous example, please don't get too defensive again). Sure a discussion is taking place, but essentially any discussion about the benchmark game degenerates into either an argument about why the benchmark game doesn't cause one-dimensional comparisons (with the pro-Benchmarks-Game side consistently being overly defensive), or an argument about why using every unsafe corner of language X to basically mimic the fastest C program is perfectly reasonable, idiomatic and common in the real world.
- igouy 12y ago
  >>A few comments up you are saying that … isn't considered for the sort of comparison …<< Please quote my words that you claim say that.
  - dbaupp 12y ago
    > 1) That might be a credible criticism if the benchmarks game claimed to be some kind of exhaustive comparison. (I.e. literally your paragraph before the thing I quoted in my comment just above.)
    - igouy 12y ago
      Those words do not say that there are no people who "will do naive comparisons using the benchmarks game". Those words say that they do so in-spite of what's shown on the benchmarks game website, not because of what's shown.
- igouy 12y ago
  >>…any discussion about the benchmark game degenerates into…<< Given the comments you have already made, that seems to be a self fulfilling prophesy.