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What this article, and many commentators in this thread, are forgetting is that the college/university system is not designed primarily for education. The reas

by aruss 12y ago

What this article, and many commentators in this thread, are forgetting is that the college/university system is not designed primarily for education. The reason why the college system is tailored toward young adults is because we as a culture have decided that college is the place for young adults to "find themselves." College is often the first time young adults begin living on their own; putting them in a structured institution with their peers is how many kids learn how to "grow up" (in particular, the children of privileged individuals who also want their children to receive some sort of education/job training). There are other issues with the higher education as an institution, but the segregation between older adults ("nontraditional" students) is not one of them, nor is the seeming lack of responsibility found at college (though sexual assault and substance abuse are serious issues that need to be addressed) - it's a defining part of the American "college experience." It could be argued that you can "find yourself" without college, and while that's absolutely true I would say that it's hard to find a better institution to do so (other problems like rising tuition/loans notwithstanding).

cSoze 12y ago
We're arguing exactly the design that you seem to be espousing. Taking into account cost, immaturity due to biological constraints at age 18-22 and rampant party culture, college is a particularily bad place to "find yourself". Young adults should be exposed to a wide diversity in age and demographics, not locked into a small area with a largely homogeneous group of individuals to "grow up". All of this was touched upon in the article. In my opinion, the American "college experience" is in dire need of reconsideration.
- chaostheory 12y ago
  > rampant party culture This greatly depends on the particular university. I really doubt there's much of a party at places like Cal Poly, Georgia Tech, or MIT when you compare them to FSU or a place like the University of Arizona.
  - eli_gottlieb 12y ago
    Ah. Ha. Ha. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFbDZyHxL2g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFbDZyHxL2g
    - juliangregorian 12y ago
      That's what you chose to demonstrate that MIT is a party school?
      - eli_gottlieb 12y ago
        Well there's that, and there's the fraternities. MIT, in my experience of having lived in Cambridge, is very much "work hard, play hard" for its undergrads.
        chaostheory 12y ago
        Dude, GT also has a drinking song as it's official school song; yet there are no real parties on campus - you know regular events with tons and tons of debauchery. I think this is what you don't get if you've never experienced a real party school: there's mainly only playing hard and there's barely any work for a lot of your time there (or even all of it if you so choose). There are classes where all you have to do is show up and you'll pass...
        eli_gottlieb 12y ago
        >I think this is what you don't get if you've never experienced a real party school: there's mainly only playing hard and there's barely any work for a lot of your time there (or even all of it if you so choose). Funny thing: I did my undergrad at the famously party-focused UMass Amherst, and it wasn't like that at all.
        chaostheory 12y ago
        I don't feel that party schools can exist in places that have a good amount of snow and ice but that's my opinion. It's also possible not to experience the pitfalls of a party school even if you attend one if you hang with the right crowd.
chaostheory 12y ago
I agree with exactly what you wrote. I also wanted to add that adults have many things that teens don't have yet such as money, reputation, and experience. Universities tend to bolster the last two.
cylinder 12y ago
This is actually pretty uniquely American. In Australia, for example, the major universities are within the major cities, often downtown; there are hardly any "university towns." As such, there's no real need to move out of parents' home if they live in the city, parents generally are more adaptive and respect the autonomy of their now adult children even if they're still living upstairs. Obviously this dramatically lowers the costs of university. In addition, there's a higher concentration of jobs available to work while you study in major cities, instead of just hanging out in dorms or frat houses playing video games with all your free time like many American students do. Juggling these responsibilities while studying and being close to your family will make one "grow up" and develop a solid work ethic much quicker than the extended summer camp that often American universities become. Sports are handled by amateur leagues abundant in the cities, not affiliated and part of universities. Not really the tribalism you see with big American schools amongst alumni either, not like what I grew up with in Texas, which is really off-putting and absurd. Overall, I think both systems have their advantages and disadvantages, but I think the Australian way is just healthier for everyone.

by aruss 12y ago

cSoze 12y ago

We're arguing exactly the design that you seem to be espousing. Taking into account cost, immaturity due to biological constraints at age 18-22 and rampant party culture, college is a particularily bad place to "find yourself". Young adults should be exposed to a wide diversity in age and demographics, not locked into a small area with a largely homogeneous group of individuals to "grow up". All of this was touched upon in the article. In my opinion, the American "college experience" is in dire need of reconsideration.

chaostheory 12y ago
> rampant party culture This greatly depends on the particular university. I really doubt there's much of a party at places like Cal Poly, Georgia Tech, or MIT when you compare them to FSU or a place like the University of Arizona.
- eli_gottlieb 12y ago
  Ah. Ha. Ha. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFbDZyHxL2g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFbDZyHxL2g
  - juliangregorian 12y ago
    That's what you chose to demonstrate that MIT is a party school?
    - eli_gottlieb 12y ago
      Well there's that, and there's the fraternities. MIT, in my experience of having lived in Cambridge, is very much "work hard, play hard" for its undergrads.
      - chaostheory 12y ago
        Dude, GT also has a drinking song as it's official school song; yet there are no real parties on campus - you know regular events with tons and tons of debauchery. I think this is what you don't get if you've never experienced a real party school: there's mainly only playing hard and there's barely any work for a lot of your time there (or even all of it if you so choose). There are classes where all you have to do is show up and you'll pass...
        eli_gottlieb 12y ago
        >I think this is what you don't get if you've never experienced a real party school: there's mainly only playing hard and there's barely any work for a lot of your time there (or even all of it if you so choose). Funny thing: I did my undergrad at the famously party-focused UMass Amherst, and it wasn't like that at all.
        chaostheory 12y ago
        I don't feel that party schools can exist in places that have a good amount of snow and ice but that's my opinion. It's also possible not to experience the pitfalls of a party school even if you attend one if you hang with the right crowd.

chaostheory 12y ago

I agree with exactly what you wrote. I also wanted to add that adults have many things that teens don't have yet such as money, reputation, and experience. Universities tend to bolster the last two.

cylinder 12y ago

This is actually pretty uniquely American. In Australia, for example, the major universities are within the major cities, often downtown; there are hardly any "university towns." As such, there's no real need to move out of parents' home if they live in the city, parents generally are more adaptive and respect the autonomy of their now adult children even if they're still living upstairs. Obviously this dramatically lowers the costs of university. In addition, there's a higher concentration of jobs available to work while you study in major cities, instead of just hanging out in dorms or frat houses playing video games with all your free time like many American students do. Juggling these responsibilities while studying and being close to your family will make one "grow up" and develop a solid work ethic much quicker than the extended summer camp that often American universities become. Sports are handled by amateur leagues abundant in the cities, not affiliated and part of universities. Not really the tribalism you see with big American schools amongst alumni either, not like what I grew up with in Texas, which is really off-putting and absurd. Overall, I think both systems have their advantages and disadvantages, but I think the Australian way is just healthier for everyone.