4 ms·

You are not parsing the text correctly. It is legal to "hold any gay pride events, speak in favor of gay rights, or say that gay relationships are equal to het

by osipov 12y ago

You are not parsing the text correctly. It is legal to "hold any gay pride events, speak in favor of gay rights, or say that gay relationships are equal to heterosexual relationships" It is illegal "illegal to hold any gay pride events, speak in favor of gay rights, or say that gay relationships are equal to heterosexual relationships _in presence of minors_."

commentzorro 12y ago
Interesting. So how does this play out as a means of controlling moral values in Russia? Can I effectively break up any pro gay rights events just by bringing along enough children? Or does incidental inclusion of minors not count enough to stop an already planned event?
- notahacker 12y ago
  To be honest, gay rights events in Russia are usually broken up by far-Right mobs physically attacking anyone participating. It's fair to say the police aren't renowned for making concerted efforts to ensure things go peacefully, but they're generally not the ones dishing out the beatings either. The law in question is pandering to the extreme levels of homophobia prevalent in modern Russian culture, and its justification and theme is loosely based on an actually much more explicitly anti-gay law that existed on the UK statute book not so long ago; our current PM opposed its repeal in 2003 and yet ended up backing gay marriage a decade later. Legislators sometime reflect popular sentiment more as they shape it. Which doesn't mean it isn't a terrible law, and much more likely to be used to persecute people in Russia than the UK (or indeed Singapore where homosexuality is technically illegal). But some perspective is useful here. From the waves of condemnation emitted from certain sources earlier this year you'd never guess that last Olympic venue where homosexual activity was actually illegal was Atlanta in 1996. I'd appreciate the campaign to support Russian gay rights much more if I believed much of the media behind it wasn't - for better or worse - really far more interested in Russia's foreign policy. Or that it wouldn't backfire...
PJDK 12y ago
There's nothing wrong with telling Children that it's fine to be gay
- notjackma 12y ago
  Depends on who's telling the Children, right? Like Larry Brinkin, the former San Francisco Human Rights commissioner and high-profile gay rights activist? "Larry Brinkin, S.F. Gay Rights Activist Convicted of Porn Charges, Headed to Jail... SF Weekly broke the news in June 2012 when local cops had arrested the high-profile gay rights activist after investigators traced images of children as young as perhaps a year old being sodomized by and performing oral sex on adult men to Brinkin's IP address. SFPD acted after receiving a tip from the Los Angeles Police Department..." http://www.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/2014/03/05/larry-brinkin-sf-gay-rights-activist-convicted-of-porn-charges-headed-to-jail http://www.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/2014/03/05/larry-brinkin-s... Or famous Terry Bean who co-founded the Human Rights Campaign and Gay And Lesbian Victory Fund? "Gay rights activist, 66, who raised $500,000 for Obama's re-election campaign indicted for 'sexually abusing 15-year-old boy' with his boyfriend in a hotel. Terry Bean, 66, co-founded Human Rights Campaign and Gay And Lesbian Victory Fund before putting more than $500,000 behind Obama in 2012. He has been charged with 2 counts of sodomy and 1 count of sex abuse" http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2844861/Gay-rights-activist-66-raised-500-000-Obama-s-election-campaign-indicted-sexually-abusing-15-year-old-boy-boyfriend-hotel.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2844861/Gay-rights-a...
  - okatsu 12y ago
    I don't understand your point. Two people did something bad, so that means the promotion of LGBT rights as a whole is wrong? Would you like to count how many heterosexuals are in prison for doing the same?
  - king_jester 12y ago
    There are plenty of straight folks doing this same thing but there is no ban on people from talking about heterosexuality around minors.
unprepare 12y ago
I am not parsing anything incorrectly. > _in presence of minors_ so, anywhere in public? where would one find space to hold a public event where children are guaranteed to not be present? Also the whole line of reasoning is that mentioning homosexuality to children makes them gay which is... bad? thats a value judgment on homosexuality that was put in place by the government, yet you are trying to constantly say that this law holds no prejudice? what a shill. Oh, before you try to come back with 'thats not a value judgement!' hold your breath. the law literally states that you cant say that gay relationships are equal to heterosexual relationships to children, that leaves only two possible positions: either homosexual relationships are better or they are worse
- osipov 12y ago
  I don't know if you have kids but I do. I don't want my kids to be exposed to any form of expression supporting any sexual lifestyle. In fact, I don't event want my kids to see a blurred photo of Kim Kardashian's naked butt on TV. There is zero prejudice in this value statement. And most parents agree with my position. When my kids are adults they can decide about sexual relationships for themselves. Until then I decide for them and I want a legal system that supports my decisions.
  - unprepare 12y ago
    Does the law block speaking to kids about ALL sexual orientations, or just 'non traditional'? you're point is completely irrelevant to the discussion. this is about discrimination against homosexuality. But I'll address it anyways: >I don't want my kids to be exposed to any form of expression supporting any sexual lifestyle. Good for you, luckily as a parent you have the ability to make those decisions for your kids. This does not extend to you forcing your views on others. >And most parents agree with my position. and the rights of the majority are the only rights that matter, correct? >Until then I decide for them and I want a legal system that supports my decisions. This is not how it works. Say you were an anti-vaccine advocate, you would want the legal system to outlaw vaccines, but many other parents would disagree. see how this conflicts with the rights of others?
dreamweapon 12y ago
It is illegal "illegal to hold any gay pride events, speak in favor of gay rights, or say that gay relationships are equal to heterosexual relationships _in presence of minors_." For example, in a public square.

by osipov 12y ago

commentzorro 12y ago

Interesting. So how does this play out as a means of controlling moral values in Russia? Can I effectively break up any pro gay rights events just by bringing along enough children? Or does incidental inclusion of minors not count enough to stop an already planned event?

notahacker 12y ago
To be honest, gay rights events in Russia are usually broken up by far-Right mobs physically attacking anyone participating. It's fair to say the police aren't renowned for making concerted efforts to ensure things go peacefully, but they're generally not the ones dishing out the beatings either. The law in question is pandering to the extreme levels of homophobia prevalent in modern Russian culture, and its justification and theme is loosely based on an actually much more explicitly anti-gay law that existed on the UK statute book not so long ago; our current PM opposed its repeal in 2003 and yet ended up backing gay marriage a decade later. Legislators sometime reflect popular sentiment more as they shape it. Which doesn't mean it isn't a terrible law, and much more likely to be used to persecute people in Russia than the UK (or indeed Singapore where homosexuality is technically illegal). But some perspective is useful here. From the waves of condemnation emitted from certain sources earlier this year you'd never guess that last Olympic venue where homosexual activity was actually illegal was Atlanta in 1996. I'd appreciate the campaign to support Russian gay rights much more if I believed much of the media behind it wasn't - for better or worse - really far more interested in Russia's foreign policy. Or that it wouldn't backfire...

PJDK 12y ago

There's nothing wrong with telling Children that it's fine to be gay

notjackma 12y ago
Depends on who's telling the Children, right? Like Larry Brinkin, the former San Francisco Human Rights commissioner and high-profile gay rights activist? "Larry Brinkin, S.F. Gay Rights Activist Convicted of Porn Charges, Headed to Jail... SF Weekly broke the news in June 2012 when local cops had arrested the high-profile gay rights activist after investigators traced images of children as young as perhaps a year old being sodomized by and performing oral sex on adult men to Brinkin's IP address. SFPD acted after receiving a tip from the Los Angeles Police Department..." http://www.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/2014/03/05/larry-brinkin-sf-gay-rights-activist-convicted-of-porn-charges-headed-to-jail http://www.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/2014/03/05/larry-brinkin-s... Or famous Terry Bean who co-founded the Human Rights Campaign and Gay And Lesbian Victory Fund? "Gay rights activist, 66, who raised $500,000 for Obama's re-election campaign indicted for 'sexually abusing 15-year-old boy' with his boyfriend in a hotel. Terry Bean, 66, co-founded Human Rights Campaign and Gay And Lesbian Victory Fund before putting more than $500,000 behind Obama in 2012. He has been charged with 2 counts of sodomy and 1 count of sex abuse" http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2844861/Gay-rights-activist-66-raised-500-000-Obama-s-election-campaign-indicted-sexually-abusing-15-year-old-boy-boyfriend-hotel.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2844861/Gay-rights-a...
- okatsu 12y ago
  I don't understand your point. Two people did something bad, so that means the promotion of LGBT rights as a whole is wrong? Would you like to count how many heterosexuals are in prison for doing the same?
- king_jester 12y ago
  There are plenty of straight folks doing this same thing but there is no ban on people from talking about heterosexuality around minors.

unprepare 12y ago

I am not parsing anything incorrectly. > _in presence of minors_ so, anywhere in public? where would one find space to hold a public event where children are guaranteed to not be present? Also the whole line of reasoning is that mentioning homosexuality to children makes them gay which is... bad? thats a value judgment on homosexuality that was put in place by the government, yet you are trying to constantly say that this law holds no prejudice? what a shill. Oh, before you try to come back with 'thats not a value judgement!' hold your breath. the law literally states that you cant say that gay relationships are equal to heterosexual relationships to children, that leaves only two possible positions: either homosexual relationships are better or they are worse

osipov 12y ago
I don't know if you have kids but I do. I don't want my kids to be exposed to any form of expression supporting any sexual lifestyle. In fact, I don't event want my kids to see a blurred photo of Kim Kardashian's naked butt on TV. There is zero prejudice in this value statement. And most parents agree with my position. When my kids are adults they can decide about sexual relationships for themselves. Until then I decide for them and I want a legal system that supports my decisions.
- unprepare 12y ago
  Does the law block speaking to kids about ALL sexual orientations, or just 'non traditional'? you're point is completely irrelevant to the discussion. this is about discrimination against homosexuality. But I'll address it anyways: >I don't want my kids to be exposed to any form of expression supporting any sexual lifestyle. Good for you, luckily as a parent you have the ability to make those decisions for your kids. This does not extend to you forcing your views on others. >And most parents agree with my position. and the rights of the majority are the only rights that matter, correct? >Until then I decide for them and I want a legal system that supports my decisions. This is not how it works. Say you were an anti-vaccine advocate, you would want the legal system to outlaw vaccines, but many other parents would disagree. see how this conflicts with the rights of others?

dreamweapon 12y ago

It is illegal "illegal to hold any gay pride events, speak in favor of gay rights, or say that gay relationships are equal to heterosexual relationships _in presence of minors_." For example, in a public square.