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Whether or not you think Ulbrecht really was a full-on digital gangster, assassinating enemies at will -- I sure don't -- I think we all can agree: it does not

by lstyls 12y ago

Whether or not you think Ulbrecht really was a full-on digital gangster, assassinating enemies at will -- I sure don't -- I think we all can agree: it does not bode well for your coming trial when the judge publicly declares you a danger to the lives of witnesses.

eli 12y ago
Do you think he was entrapped or do you think the government manufactured evidence of attempted assassinations out of whole cloth?
- _cpancake 12y ago
  There is no circumstance where you can be entrapped into killing someone or ordering the killing of someone.
  - tptacek 12y ago
    I think if you go looking you'll find cases where entrapment is brought up as a defense to murder charges. The bigger issue with entrapment is that it usually requires the defendant to concede the charged crime; to say he was entrapped into ordering a murder, Ulbricht would have to surrender any defense involving him not giving that order, or believing the order was anything other than what it appeared to be.
  - ceejayoz 12y ago
    "Do this or we will kill your family" from an undercover cop?
    - akerl_ 12y ago
      I think you're misunderstanding what entrapment is. What you've described is blackmail.
      - tptacek 12y ago
        No, that's the example I came up with in my head too. "Entrapment" is what happens when law enforcement coerces someone to commit a crime who was not otherwise inclined to do it. The kernel of entrapment isn't that law enforcement creates an opportunity to commit a crime, but that they accompany the opportunity with some kind of push or shove.
      - ceejayoz 12y ago
        It's both. It'd be just blackmail if I did it to you. If I were a cop, it's additionally entrapment.
  - voxic11 12y ago
    What about if you were caught committing a crime and a detective told you you had to help in a sting operation if you wanted to avoid chargers. In the sing operation you are told to solicit a hit from a suspected hitman. which you do and then are promptly arrested for conspiracy to commit murder. Do you think entrapment should not be a defense in this case? I am pretty sure it's the exact kind of situation the defense is intended to be used in.
butwhy 12y ago
Why don't you think he was? I personally was all-for his cause (and everything silk road stood for), but I think he's probably guilty of the murder thing and they claim evidence to back it up. Edit: Funny how I'm getting downvotes. Apparently it's soo controversial to make my decision based on evidence. And something that'll he likely be convicted for.
- lsaferite 12y ago
  If they had the evidence you'd think they would charge him with attempted murder.
- canvia 12y ago
  Then why wouldn't they indict him for it? Seems like manipulation of public perception to me. "If You Care About Internet Freedom, Read About Ross Ulbricht's Silk Road Trial NOW" http://reason.com/blog/2014/12/12/if-you-care-about-internet-freedom-read http://reason.com/blog/2014/12/12/if-you-care-about-internet...
  - tptacek 12y ago
    Because the murder charge is factually complicated, the Silk Road charges are simpler, Ulbricht will serve a long prison sentence if convicted of either set of charges, and introducing the trickier murder charge risks the credibility of the rest of the charges with the jury?
    - canvia 12y ago
      It is also possible that the evidence was collected illegally.
      - tptacek 12y ago
        Also true!
    - tomp 12y ago
      That doesn't sound plausible - US prosecutors are notorious for piling up charges (even when there is little chance they will hold in court), to increase the maximum possible sentence the defendant could server, to make him/her plead guily and settle (e.g. the story of Aaron Swartz).

by lstyls 12y ago

eli 12y ago

Do you think he was entrapped or do you think the government manufactured evidence of attempted assassinations out of whole cloth?

_cpancake 12y ago
There is no circumstance where you can be entrapped into killing someone or ordering the killing of someone.
- tptacek 12y ago
  I think if you go looking you'll find cases where entrapment is brought up as a defense to murder charges. The bigger issue with entrapment is that it usually requires the defendant to concede the charged crime; to say he was entrapped into ordering a murder, Ulbricht would have to surrender any defense involving him not giving that order, or believing the order was anything other than what it appeared to be.
- ceejayoz 12y ago
  "Do this or we will kill your family" from an undercover cop?
  - akerl_ 12y ago
    I think you're misunderstanding what entrapment is. What you've described is blackmail.
    - tptacek 12y ago
      No, that's the example I came up with in my head too. "Entrapment" is what happens when law enforcement coerces someone to commit a crime who was not otherwise inclined to do it. The kernel of entrapment isn't that law enforcement creates an opportunity to commit a crime, but that they accompany the opportunity with some kind of push or shove.
    - ceejayoz 12y ago
      It's both. It'd be just blackmail if I did it to you. If I were a cop, it's additionally entrapment.
- voxic11 12y ago
  What about if you were caught committing a crime and a detective told you you had to help in a sting operation if you wanted to avoid chargers. In the sing operation you are told to solicit a hit from a suspected hitman. which you do and then are promptly arrested for conspiracy to commit murder. Do you think entrapment should not be a defense in this case? I am pretty sure it's the exact kind of situation the defense is intended to be used in.

butwhy 12y ago

Why don't you think he was? I personally was all-for his cause (and everything silk road stood for), but I think he's probably guilty of the murder thing and they claim evidence to back it up. Edit: Funny how I'm getting downvotes. Apparently it's soo controversial to make my decision based on evidence. And something that'll he likely be convicted for.

lsaferite 12y ago
If they had the evidence you'd think they would charge him with attempted murder.
canvia 12y ago
Then why wouldn't they indict him for it? Seems like manipulation of public perception to me. "If You Care About Internet Freedom, Read About Ross Ulbricht's Silk Road Trial NOW" http://reason.com/blog/2014/12/12/if-you-care-about-internet-freedom-read http://reason.com/blog/2014/12/12/if-you-care-about-internet...
- tptacek 12y ago
  Because the murder charge is factually complicated, the Silk Road charges are simpler, Ulbricht will serve a long prison sentence if convicted of either set of charges, and introducing the trickier murder charge risks the credibility of the rest of the charges with the jury?
  - canvia 12y ago
    It is also possible that the evidence was collected illegally.
    - tptacek 12y ago
      Also true!
  - tomp 12y ago
    That doesn't sound plausible - US prosecutors are notorious for piling up charges (even when there is little chance they will hold in court), to increase the maximum possible sentence the defendant could server, to make him/her plead guily and settle (e.g. the story of Aaron Swartz).