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I won't disagree that demonizing Putin is what the government wants us to do. I remember how the U.S. funded Saddam to use chemical weapons on Iran and then ove
by okatsu 12y ago
I won't disagree that demonizing Putin is what the government wants us to do. I remember how the U.S. funded Saddam to use chemical weapons on Iran and then overthrew him "for the sake of the people."
However, it should also be kept in mind that we're still far away from the Russian regime where speaking against the government (releasing classified documents doesn't count) or being a homosexual will land you in jail.
So yeah, no one's perfect, but I'll stick to North America for the time being, thanks.
- osipov 12y agoThe situation about gays in Russia, i.e. "being a homosexual will land you in jail" is a meme that Western Corporate Media wants you to believe. Read the facts: http://gallery.mailchimp.com/d0e55f3197099944345708652/files/RussianLGBTLawWhitePaper.pdf http://gallery.mailchimp.com/d0e55f3197099944345708652/files...
- okatsu 12y agoSpeaking in favor of gay rights is considered propaganda and was made illegal last year.
- pandaman 12y agoI know that propaganda of sex to children had been forbidden last year (which makes one wonder, has it really been legal before 2013?), did not know this one. Any links would be appreciated. I can read and write Russian so the law's name would be good enough for me.
- okatsu 12y agoIt's the same law; their logic is that promoting LGBT rights means promoting deviant sexual behaviour, and doing so publicly will inevitably reach children.
- pandaman 12y ago"Their" is referring whom exactly? I don't think Russia is a Common Law country, judges there cannot derive something from a law so whomever you think is interpreting the law. Were not media saying that gay athletes in Sochi are going to be incarcerated using the same logic?
- okatsu 12y ago"Their" referring to the Putin government. You can't really use Sochi as an example. The Olympics are a very important international event and Russia wanted the good publicity. You'll also notice that Putin ordered the release of many political prisoners just in time for that event.
- pandaman 12y agoI see. So Putin has made media to lie. What an asshole!
- osipov 12y agoIt is legal to speak in favor of gay rights. It is illegal for adults to speak in favor of gay rights TO MINORS. Much like it is legal to have sex. And illegal for adults to have sex with minors. The law is explained in detail here: http://gallery.mailchimp.com/d0e55f3197099944345708652/files/RussianLGBTLawWhitePaper.pdf http://gallery.mailchimp.com/d0e55f3197099944345708652/files...
- okatsu 12y agoDid you just compare a minor being told that homosexuality is okay to having sex with an adult? And as I've said earlier, that basically prevents any public promotion.
- osipov 12y agoThe logical structure of the two arguments is the same. I don't want my kids to be exposed to public promotion of any sexual lifestyle. In fact I don't even want them to see a blurred photo of Kim Kardashian's naked butt on TV. LGBT community can rent out a conference center and hold the rally there, advertising it publicly and denying minors access to the premises. This is perfectly legal under today's LGBT laws in Russia.
- notjackma 12y agoIt doesn't matter what you want your kids exposed to... because there are activists who are working with politicians in most Western countries to totally change sex educations classes. For example, in the UK, teachers are to tell kids as young as 13, which is below the age of consent: "normal behaviour includes taking an interest in pornography, having sexually explicit conversations, using the internet to chat online and consenting to oral or penetrative sex with the same or opposite gender." Or kids as young as 9: " So-called “green behaviours” are defined as those that “reflect safe and healthy sexual development”. For children aged nine to 13, green behaviours include “solitary masturbation” and “use of sexual language”." http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/11209109/Teachers-told-sex-at-13-is-normal-part-of-growing-up.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/11209109/...
- osipov 12y ago> Speaking in favor of gay rights is considered propaganda and was made illegal last year. That's false. EDIT: Again, the statement above is false. It is legal to speak in favor of gay rights. It is illegal for adults to speak in favor of gay rights TO MINORS. Much like it is legal to have sex. And illegal for adults to have sex with minors.
- watt 12y agoNot quite false. Here's the law in question I believe: http://asozd2.duma.gov.ru/main.nsf/%28Spravka%29?OpenAgent&RN=44554-6&02 http://asozd2.duma.gov.ru/main.nsf/%28Spravka%29?OpenAgent&R...
- unprepare 12y agohttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Russia#Propaganda_bans http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Russia#Propagand... No, it isnt. key point from the text: Under the statute it is effectively illegal to hold any gay pride events, speak in favor of gay rights, or say that gay relationships are equal to heterosexual relationships in presence of minors.[5][57][60][64][65]
- osipov 12y agoYou are not parsing the text correctly. It is legal to "hold any gay pride events, speak in favor of gay rights, or say that gay relationships are equal to heterosexual relationships" It is illegal "illegal to hold any gay pride events, speak in favor of gay rights, or say that gay relationships are equal to heterosexual relationships _in presence of minors_."
- commentzorro 12y agoInteresting. So how does this play out as a means of controlling moral values in Russia? Can I effectively break up any pro gay rights events just by bringing along enough children? Or does incidental inclusion of minors not count enough to stop an already planned event?