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Ah Silicon Valley's big ponzi scheme. A year ago today a Bitcoin was worth $820, right now one is worth $360. How long until it hits its inevitable price, $0.

by Ologn 12y ago

Ah Silicon Valley's big ponzi scheme. A year ago today a Bitcoin was worth $820, right now one is worth $360. How long until it hits its inevitable price, $0.00, considering it has no value whatsoever? Who knows? As Keynes said, markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent. Marc Andreessen talks about how older people have dot-bomb hangover fears, but nothing screams bubble to me than this modern scam known as Bitcoin. It has all the attributes of a scam as well - the anonymous architect, all the big players running off with the money or getting raided by the police. Yet the big names in the Valley keep touting this worthless ripoff. Plenty of HN'ers are involved in the scam, so this post is sure to get downvoted to oblivion by them. What we have here on HN is me, who over a year ago when Bitcoin was worth $460 said it was worthless ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6753545 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6753545 ), and we also have the scam artists who were hyping it then, are hyping it now etc. The potential Bitcoin investor suckers who listened to me would have saved themselves from losing the $100+ dollars on each Bitcoin they bought since the current price is below $360. I've been prescient, they've been wrong, but they're still running their scam and will downvote me to oblivion - they still have some suckers to fleece. The real thing to note is how hard the big names in the Valley are pushing these hashes that they know to be worthless, which has been surrounded by an architect who hid his identity, and multiple ripoffs and police raids. Supposedly the Valley is about people who have insights that others don't. In this case though, the big names and big money have one insight, this is a scam, and try to hush those pointing that out, as there are still suckers left to fleece.

VMG 12y ago
> The potential Bitcoin investor suckers who listened to me would have saved themselves from losing the $100+ dollars on each Bitcoin they bought since the current price is below $360. What would you have said in 2011?
esbio 12y ago
Gold has no value whatsoever as well. Yet it's considered a commodity. Even money has no value whatsoever. Money is a promise from a government to grant some goods or services. If the government gives up, or its companies close down or leave, or decides to devalue its currency, you lose money regardless. Commodities are assigned the value humans agree on, according to market. Bitcoin is no different. It's a digital commodity, but a commodity nevertheless. It will have its bubbles, but they are fueled by human greed, not the nature of bitcoin per se.
- Goronmon 12y ago
  Gold has no value whatsoever as well. You mean other than in jewelry and electronics? Even money has no value whatsoever. Money is a promise from a government to grant some goods or services. I think you are using a strange definition of "no value".
  - TomGullen 12y ago
    > You mean other than in jewelry and electronics? What % of Golds value do you think is based on usage in jewelry and electronics? Hint, not much.
    - canvia 12y ago
      66% isn't a lot? "In 2010, jewelry accounted for approximately 54% percent of gold demand, which totaled 3,812 tonnes, according to the World Gold Council and The London Bullion Market Association. ... Another 12% of demand is attributed to medical and industrial uses for gold, where it is used in the manufacturing of medical devices like stents and precision electronics like GPS units." http://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/0311/what-drives-the-price-of-gold.aspx http://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/0311/what-drives-...
      - mynameisvlad 12y ago
        He never said what amount of gold goes into jewelry, which your source gives (the demand). His point was not the demand, but the value of gold associated with its use in jewelry or electronics (which I would argue is also high, but that's just my opinion).
  - jasonisalive 12y ago
    If you think about what they're implying instead of just being snarky, they're really saying that bitcoin/gold/other monetary commodities have no intrinsic value beyond their a) suitability as exchange technologies and b) broad recognition as desirable. Another way of thinking this one through would be to say, okay, gold may be desired for jewelery and electronics, but so are many other metals, so why did gold become a principal money and other metals didn't? The answer doesn't have anything to do with gold's desirability for jewelery/electronics - it has to do with gold's: good mix of abundance and scarcity, impossibility to forge, durability, friability, etc. It's a rhetorical exercise necessary to make people understand that while Bitcoin may just be a bunch of numbers someone invented, the combined decision of humans to value it gives it its real value (facilitated of course by its suitability as an exchange technology.)
celticninja 12y ago
way to cherry pick your dates, thre were people calling it a scam when I got in at $5, there were people calling it a scam when I encouraged family to get it at around $10. there were people calling it a scam all the way up to the $260 peak and lost more when it dropped from there. People have called it a scam plenty of times and none of them have been right. the value has peaked and troughed and plenty of people have been fortunate to make a lot of money with it and you know what, it is not going away. Your hypothetical day of a bitcoin worth $0.00 will come when something better replaces bitcoin, not because bitcoin failed against fiat/national currencies, but because it was superseded by a superior product.
- RemoteWorker 12y ago
  Keep in mind that Bitcoin replaces itself all the time, and will continue to do so. It's an open source project that continues to be developed as we speak.
  - celticninja 12y ago
    I know i just di not have the time to go into it.
ufmace 12y ago
I downvoted - not because it's against Bitcoin, but because it's written like an absurd breathless hit piece. Every other word is scam, scheme, bubble, hype, fleece, ripoff, raid, etc, yet there are no meaningful examples of how it is any of those things. Let's at least try to make insightful points on here, and leave the hits and puffs for the mainstream media.

by Ologn 12y ago

VMG 12y ago

> The potential Bitcoin investor suckers who listened to me would have saved themselves from losing the $100+ dollars on each Bitcoin they bought since the current price is below $360. What would you have said in 2011?

esbio 12y ago

Gold has no value whatsoever as well. Yet it's considered a commodity. Even money has no value whatsoever. Money is a promise from a government to grant some goods or services. If the government gives up, or its companies close down or leave, or decides to devalue its currency, you lose money regardless. Commodities are assigned the value humans agree on, according to market. Bitcoin is no different. It's a digital commodity, but a commodity nevertheless. It will have its bubbles, but they are fueled by human greed, not the nature of bitcoin per se.

Goronmon 12y ago
Gold has no value whatsoever as well. You mean other than in jewelry and electronics? Even money has no value whatsoever. Money is a promise from a government to grant some goods or services. I think you are using a strange definition of "no value".
- TomGullen 12y ago
  > You mean other than in jewelry and electronics? What % of Golds value do you think is based on usage in jewelry and electronics? Hint, not much.
  - canvia 12y ago
    66% isn't a lot? "In 2010, jewelry accounted for approximately 54% percent of gold demand, which totaled 3,812 tonnes, according to the World Gold Council and The London Bullion Market Association. ... Another 12% of demand is attributed to medical and industrial uses for gold, where it is used in the manufacturing of medical devices like stents and precision electronics like GPS units." http://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/0311/what-drives-the-price-of-gold.aspx http://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/0311/what-drives-...
    - mynameisvlad 12y ago
      He never said what amount of gold goes into jewelry, which your source gives (the demand). His point was not the demand, but the value of gold associated with its use in jewelry or electronics (which I would argue is also high, but that's just my opinion).
- jasonisalive 12y ago
  If you think about what they're implying instead of just being snarky, they're really saying that bitcoin/gold/other monetary commodities have no intrinsic value beyond their a) suitability as exchange technologies and b) broad recognition as desirable. Another way of thinking this one through would be to say, okay, gold may be desired for jewelery and electronics, but so are many other metals, so why did gold become a principal money and other metals didn't? The answer doesn't have anything to do with gold's desirability for jewelery/electronics - it has to do with gold's: good mix of abundance and scarcity, impossibility to forge, durability, friability, etc. It's a rhetorical exercise necessary to make people understand that while Bitcoin may just be a bunch of numbers someone invented, the combined decision of humans to value it gives it its real value (facilitated of course by its suitability as an exchange technology.)

celticninja 12y ago

way to cherry pick your dates, thre were people calling it a scam when I got in at $5, there were people calling it a scam when I encouraged family to get it at around $10. there were people calling it a scam all the way up to the $260 peak and lost more when it dropped from there. People have called it a scam plenty of times and none of them have been right. the value has peaked and troughed and plenty of people have been fortunate to make a lot of money with it and you know what, it is not going away. Your hypothetical day of a bitcoin worth $0.00 will come when something better replaces bitcoin, not because bitcoin failed against fiat/national currencies, but because it was superseded by a superior product.

RemoteWorker 12y ago
Keep in mind that Bitcoin replaces itself all the time, and will continue to do so. It's an open source project that continues to be developed as we speak.
- celticninja 12y ago
  I know i just di not have the time to go into it.

ufmace 12y ago

I downvoted - not because it's against Bitcoin, but because it's written like an absurd breathless hit piece. Every other word is scam, scheme, bubble, hype, fleece, ripoff, raid, etc, yet there are no meaningful examples of how it is any of those things. Let's at least try to make insightful points on here, and leave the hits and puffs for the mainstream media.