6 ms·

Now I just need a anonymous way to get some BC without farming it or meeting some shady guy near the main station in Frankfurt... I hope those BC vending machi

by aluhut 12y ago

Now I just need a anonymous way to get some BC without farming it or meeting some shady guy near the main station in Frankfurt... I hope those BC vending machines get more popular here.

MichaelGG 12y ago
Vending machines will almost certainly have cameras. And incautious use could still leave DNA or fingerprints. Best anonymity is to mail cash to a LocalBitcoin seller. Take care to get unregistered bills (ATMs and bank withdrawals could trace serial numbers, though WF claims they do not). Get big bills, then shop for change. Take great care in preparing the envelope. Consider using a remailer. Some post offices will even do that for you. Address it to the postmaster, and include a ready piece of mail inside. And remember, the seller could be an operative of whoever you're trying to keep anonymous from. Biggest issues are A: your general geo location is known (though remailing adds one more party to penetrate, OTOH, if the post scans every piece of mail, auto correlation could be easy). B: buying stamps is getting harder, anonymously. Cameras all over. Automatic machines require credit cards. Source: I was thinking of operating a hidden service for hosting. I wanted to see how much work it actually was for potential customers to buy anonymous BTC and spent a few days attempting to do so. For people wanting to have strong (state level) security, it seems very difficult to get it right. Edit: A real solution is, if zero knowledge proofs are real and can scale, is to have an active market that uses that tech. Then you go and trade in and out and can get lost in the noise, if enough transactions are occurring. But we'd need serious buy in, otherwise it's pretty unique behavior. But it could be a great extra layer.
- aluhut 12y ago
  The one in Berlin Kreuzberg, in an "alternative" Bar looked nice. I think it's the only one in Germany atm. I don't think they have cameras. And yes. I had similar thoughts. The only local seller I came up with in my area that would sell smaller ammounts wanted to meet in person. Which is...I don't know. I have a bad feeling about that. Since I "only" want to pay an VPN with them (maybe some space also if that works out), I would probably take the mail-way you've described if it would have been aviable. I now think about paying the VPN with vouchers I can buy in a local shop somewhere but no idea if that works with vouchers I buy here in Germany.
  - StavrosK 12y ago
    As a local seller, I'll want to meet in person because I don't trust any method of payment that is not cash in my hand.
    - aluhut 12y ago
      I can totally understand that. Don't take me wrong. The thing is that I don't want to meet you because it may end bad for me. I don't know you. It feels like buying weed as a teenager again. I don't need that anymore ;)
      - StavrosK 12y ago
        Yeah, exactly the same for me. That's why I'll ask to meet in a cafe or something.
        aluhut 12y ago
        Tell me when you come by Frankfurt. Apfelwein is on me :)
        StavrosK 12y ago
        Haha, I'll be in Munchen after the MWC, which is probably the closest I'll get to Frankfurt :) Similarly, let me know if you're in Thessaloniki!
      - MichaelGG 12y ago
        And... Meeting someone in real space means they can probably pretty easily find out your identity. If I were running intelligence/LE operations, I'd make sure to place well rated agents on LocalBitcoin. Offer good prices, make a bunch of transactions to get a great rating, etc. Then I'd record all interactions, including voice and video, as well as try to obtain DNA/fingerprints ("OK is this right? Wanna do the honor of hitting enter? "). That requires very little work. For large buys, a simple tail might conclusively provide identification info.
- frozenport 12y ago
  Perhaps we should get them the old fashioned way, by hacking peoples accounts?
rvschuilenburg 12y ago
Can't you use one of those online 'buy bitcoin' options? I understand using an exchange for just buying bitcoin is a bit of a hassle, but services like HappyCoins support online banking so you can just select your amount, choose the destination address, et voila.
- aluhut 12y ago
  I don't really see the use of it. I want privacy. This is why I'm interested in BC. There are no other reasons. Using an 3rd party that has my bank data is pointless because I could just pay directly through the bank/CC/similar.
celticninja 12y ago
why do you need it to be anonynous to buy Xbox live credit/points?
- aluhut 12y ago
  I don't need them for Xbox. It was a general comment since they seem to become so popular that even MS is using it.
  - celticninja 12y ago
    it was the "now all i need" as if you had been waiting for MS. anyway to obtain them truly anonymously you can buy from an exchange using your bank and then mix them so the coins you are sent back are in no way related to the coins you bought on an exchange. further you could sell them for an alt-coin e.g. litecoin, transfer the litecoin to a different exchange (that only deals in cryptocurrencies and so does not require your real details) and buy bitcoins. these againw ould be totally unlinked to your original purhcase. Voila anonymous bitcoins.
    - aluhut 12y ago
      God that sounds complicated. Maybe I should make a trip to Berlin instead...
      - celticninja 12y ago
        it may sound complicated but when you consider it is probably 30 minutes sitting at a computer (something you are probably already doing) it really isnt. A very easy way: Go to localbitcoins.com find a seller buy bitcoins using your bank account send coins to HELIX/Bitcoinfog or another mixer of your choice. *Retrieve coins from the mixing service.
        aluhut 12y ago
        Unfortunately LocalBitcoins is currently not available in your selected region. Please look for other location or come back later.
RemoteWorker 12y ago
So you want to be anonymous... But you automatically assume someone anonymous is "shady".
- aluhut 12y ago
  I assume everybody who sells/buys stuff around the Main Station in Frankfurt is shady. Yes. FYI: most of them are drug dealers.
placeybordeaux 12y ago
Mining is probably going to be your best bet for a while...

by aluhut 12y ago

Now I just need a anonymous way to get some BC without farming it or meeting some shady guy near the main station in Frankfurt... I hope those BC vending machines get more popular here.

MichaelGG 12y ago

Vending machines will almost certainly have cameras. And incautious use could still leave DNA or fingerprints. Best anonymity is to mail cash to a LocalBitcoin seller. Take care to get unregistered bills (ATMs and bank withdrawals could trace serial numbers, though WF claims they do not). Get big bills, then shop for change. Take great care in preparing the envelope. Consider using a remailer. Some post offices will even do that for you. Address it to the postmaster, and include a ready piece of mail inside. And remember, the seller could be an operative of whoever you're trying to keep anonymous from. Biggest issues are A: your general geo location is known (though remailing adds one more party to penetrate, OTOH, if the post scans every piece of mail, auto correlation could be easy). B: buying stamps is getting harder, anonymously. Cameras all over. Automatic machines require credit cards. Source: I was thinking of operating a hidden service for hosting. I wanted to see how much work it actually was for potential customers to buy anonymous BTC and spent a few days attempting to do so. For people wanting to have strong (state level) security, it seems very difficult to get it right. Edit: A real solution is, if zero knowledge proofs are real and can scale, is to have an active market that uses that tech. Then you go and trade in and out and can get lost in the noise, if enough transactions are occurring. But we'd need serious buy in, otherwise it's pretty unique behavior. But it could be a great extra layer.

aluhut 12y ago
The one in Berlin Kreuzberg, in an "alternative" Bar looked nice. I think it's the only one in Germany atm. I don't think they have cameras. And yes. I had similar thoughts. The only local seller I came up with in my area that would sell smaller ammounts wanted to meet in person. Which is...I don't know. I have a bad feeling about that. Since I "only" want to pay an VPN with them (maybe some space also if that works out), I would probably take the mail-way you've described if it would have been aviable. I now think about paying the VPN with vouchers I can buy in a local shop somewhere but no idea if that works with vouchers I buy here in Germany.
- StavrosK 12y ago
  As a local seller, I'll want to meet in person because I don't trust any method of payment that is not cash in my hand.
  - aluhut 12y ago
    I can totally understand that. Don't take me wrong. The thing is that I don't want to meet you because it may end bad for me. I don't know you. It feels like buying weed as a teenager again. I don't need that anymore ;)
    - StavrosK 12y ago
      Yeah, exactly the same for me. That's why I'll ask to meet in a cafe or something.
      - aluhut 12y ago
        Tell me when you come by Frankfurt. Apfelwein is on me :)
        StavrosK 12y ago
        Haha, I'll be in Munchen after the MWC, which is probably the closest I'll get to Frankfurt :) Similarly, let me know if you're in Thessaloniki!
    - MichaelGG 12y ago
      And... Meeting someone in real space means they can probably pretty easily find out your identity. If I were running intelligence/LE operations, I'd make sure to place well rated agents on LocalBitcoin. Offer good prices, make a bunch of transactions to get a great rating, etc. Then I'd record all interactions, including voice and video, as well as try to obtain DNA/fingerprints ("OK is this right? Wanna do the honor of hitting enter? "). That requires very little work. For large buys, a simple tail might conclusively provide identification info.
frozenport 12y ago
Perhaps we should get them the old fashioned way, by hacking peoples accounts?

rvschuilenburg 12y ago

Can't you use one of those online 'buy bitcoin' options? I understand using an exchange for just buying bitcoin is a bit of a hassle, but services like HappyCoins support online banking so you can just select your amount, choose the destination address, et voila.

aluhut 12y ago
I don't really see the use of it. I want privacy. This is why I'm interested in BC. There are no other reasons. Using an 3rd party that has my bank data is pointless because I could just pay directly through the bank/CC/similar.

celticninja 12y ago

why do you need it to be anonynous to buy Xbox live credit/points?

aluhut 12y ago
I don't need them for Xbox. It was a general comment since they seem to become so popular that even MS is using it.
- celticninja 12y ago
  it was the "now all i need" as if you had been waiting for MS. anyway to obtain them truly anonymously you can buy from an exchange using your bank and then mix them so the coins you are sent back are in no way related to the coins you bought on an exchange. further you could sell them for an alt-coin e.g. litecoin, transfer the litecoin to a different exchange (that only deals in cryptocurrencies and so does not require your real details) and buy bitcoins. these againw ould be totally unlinked to your original purhcase. Voila anonymous bitcoins.
  - aluhut 12y ago
    God that sounds complicated. Maybe I should make a trip to Berlin instead...
    - celticninja 12y ago
      it may sound complicated but when you consider it is probably 30 minutes sitting at a computer (something you are probably already doing) it really isnt. A very easy way: Go to localbitcoins.com find a seller buy bitcoins using your bank account send coins to HELIX/Bitcoinfog or another mixer of your choice. *Retrieve coins from the mixing service.
      - aluhut 12y ago
        Unfortunately LocalBitcoins is currently not available in your selected region. Please look for other location or come back later.

RemoteWorker 12y ago

So you want to be anonymous... But you automatically assume someone anonymous is "shady".

aluhut 12y ago
I assume everybody who sells/buys stuff around the Main Station in Frankfurt is shady. Yes. FYI: most of them are drug dealers.

placeybordeaux 12y ago

Mining is probably going to be your best bet for a while...