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> My understanding is that IQ correlates to socio-economic background, but once that's adjusted for, all race considerations fall away Unfortunately, that's no

> My understanding is that IQ correlates to socio-economic background, but once that's adjusted for, all race considerations fall away Unfortunately, that's not true, but it's a common myth that's repeated. Poor whites do nearly as well as rich blacks, on average. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_achievement_gap_in_the_United_States#Theories_about_the_origin_of_the_racial_achievement_gap http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_achievement_gap_in_the_U... We're still searching for something that would correct for racial differences in testing, but socio-economic background does not correct for it. And even supposing it did, it doesn't directly refute the premise, because it conflates cause/effect, which is why sociologists are searching for other explanations (other than the obvious one, of course, because it goes against our societal values).

DenisM 12y ago
I wonder if there is a large enough cohort of black kids adopted into white families? That would provide a control for extra upbringing variables, those not tied to wealth.
peteretep 12y ago
> Poor whites do nearly as well as rich blacks, on > average. Help me out here, I couldn't find that in link you provided, or in fact any evidence at all that there might be a genetic component to racial differences in intelligence?
- throwaway451 12y ago
  Someone linked it below. Do you think Aborigines in Australia have the same IQ as the Japanese? Or Pygmies? Part of accepting diversity is accepting that diversity is very real. But we want it both ways.
  - Gatsky 12y ago
    Yes, I do. It's biologically implausible that race has a significant impact on intelligence. If you think that socio-cultural factors don't have a massive impact on IQ scores, then look at what has happened to the IQ scores of women in the last century, and not surprisingly, that this varies between countries [1]. [1] http://m.psychologytoday.com/blog/beautiful-minds/201207/men-women-and-iq-setting-the-record-straight http://m.psychologytoday.com/blog/beautiful-minds/201207/men...
    - throwaway451 12y ago
      > Yes, I do. It's biologically implausible that race has a significant impact on intelligence. Surely you would agree we're smarter than Gorillas. Given that, how long as human intelligence been fixed? How long has it not been a selective force in evolution for humans? Does evolution not apply to the human brain?
      - Gatsky 12y ago
        What's your point? Your contention that race influences intelligence isn't proven, so how does invoking an evolutionary framework help? Evolution is a great idea, but the evolutionary history of humans is of course almost entirely speculative. I'm not an evolutionary biologist, but I think there is enough trouble explaining why we walk up right or have smaller jaws than neanderthals let alone explaining how we evolved current levels of intelligence.
  - yongjik 12y ago
    Why not? (Assuming you meant "genetically inherited intelligence" when you said IQ. Most will agree that Japanese schoolchildren get better education than Australian Aborigines on average.) Japan was in stone age as late as 2000 years ago, which is ~2500 years after the Pyramid of Giza was built. Yet we don't see a wave of genius Egyptians now. Where are they?

DenisM 12y ago

I wonder if there is a large enough cohort of black kids adopted into white families? That would provide a control for extra upbringing variables, those not tied to wealth.

peteretep 12y ago

> Poor whites do nearly as well as rich blacks, on > average. Help me out here, I couldn't find that in link you provided, or in fact any evidence at all that there might be a genetic component to racial differences in intelligence?

throwaway451 12y ago
Someone linked it below. Do you think Aborigines in Australia have the same IQ as the Japanese? Or Pygmies? Part of accepting diversity is accepting that diversity is very real. But we want it both ways.
- Gatsky 12y ago
  Yes, I do. It's biologically implausible that race has a significant impact on intelligence. If you think that socio-cultural factors don't have a massive impact on IQ scores, then look at what has happened to the IQ scores of women in the last century, and not surprisingly, that this varies between countries [1]. [1] http://m.psychologytoday.com/blog/beautiful-minds/201207/men-women-and-iq-setting-the-record-straight http://m.psychologytoday.com/blog/beautiful-minds/201207/men...
  - throwaway451 12y ago
    > Yes, I do. It's biologically implausible that race has a significant impact on intelligence. Surely you would agree we're smarter than Gorillas. Given that, how long as human intelligence been fixed? How long has it not been a selective force in evolution for humans? Does evolution not apply to the human brain?
    - Gatsky 12y ago
      What's your point? Your contention that race influences intelligence isn't proven, so how does invoking an evolutionary framework help? Evolution is a great idea, but the evolutionary history of humans is of course almost entirely speculative. I'm not an evolutionary biologist, but I think there is enough trouble explaining why we walk up right or have smaller jaws than neanderthals let alone explaining how we evolved current levels of intelligence.
- yongjik 12y ago
  Why not? (Assuming you meant "genetically inherited intelligence" when you said IQ. Most will agree that Japanese schoolchildren get better education than Australian Aborigines on average.) Japan was in stone age as late as 2000 years ago, which is ~2500 years after the Pyramid of Giza was built. Yet we don't see a wave of genius Egyptians now. Where are they?