3 ms·

Believe it or not, this topic has come up on Hacker News before. To paraphrase my comment from then (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7324897 https://news.y

Believe it or not, this topic has come up on Hacker News before. To paraphrase my comment from then (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7324897 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7324897): while Moldovans speak a language that's very similar to Romanian, in a 2004 census 60% self-identified their primary language as 'Moldovan', as compared to 16.5% who say they speak 'Romanian'. As linguists say, a language is a dialect with an army and a navy. Whether 'Moldovan' is its own language or simply a regional dialect of 'Romanian' is entirely a question of politics.

devindotcom 12y ago
I learned something interesting today from both you guys.
- a-priori 12y ago
  Glad to help!
spiritplumber 12y ago
Sounds like Italy Italian and Switzerland Italian - I can go to Switzerland and understand what they say, but some turns of phrases are weird (imagine calling a sale "Action!", or saying "I mailed myself to Geneve" when you mean taking the bus).
simi_ 12y ago
> Believe it or not, this topic has come up on Hacker News before. To paraphrase my comment from then (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7324897 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7324897): while Moldovans speak a language that's very similar to Romanian, in a 2004 census 60% self-identified their primary language as 'Moldovan', as compared to 16.5% who say they speak 'Romanian'. You've been refuted in the very comment thread you've linked to, lol. Romania has existed as 4 smaller states [0] for a very long time, inhabited mainly by a people descendant from the native Dacians[1,2] and the colonising Romans. Moldova, the geographical region, was one of these states. Romania's steps towards unification: * in 1601 Michael the Brave manages to unify all Romanian principates, albeit very briefly * in 1881 Walachia and Moldova unify by electing the same leader * Transylvania is added to the mix after WWI * because of our initial German allegiance in WWII, we lose half of Moldova (now the Republic of Moldova) to Russia The point of my short, not that accurate history lesson is that Romanians and Moldavians are the same friggin' people, that had the same language for many, many centuries. Even if the language in the Republic of Moldova would've diverged significantly since WWII (which it has certainly not), it would still be merely a dialect as opposed to a different language. Romanian and Moldavian are less different today than e.g. German and its Austrian dialect are (hence why Moldavian is called a subdialect [3]). > As linguists say, a language is a dialect with an army and a navy. Whether 'Moldovan' is its own language or simply a regional dialect of 'Romanian' is entirely a question of politics. Don't believe most elections/referendums from Moldova. There's an acute Russian influence in the Republic of Moldavia, manifested as both systemic brainwashing of older/poorer people, and control over politics and economy, and that's corroborated by the systemic electoral fraud (also present in Romania today [4,5] – sigh). (Moreover, rumour has it that Russia has armed forces conveniently stationed not too far from the border with Moldova.) 0: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography_of_Romania#History http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography_of_Romania#History 1: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dacia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dacia 2: http://www.daciagroup.com/en http://www.daciagroup.com/en you might have heard of this (don't buy them though, they're cheap for a reason) 3: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moldavian_subdialect_of_Romanian http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moldavian_subdialect_of_Romania... 4: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanian_presidential_election,_2014 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanian_presidential_election,... 5: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ro&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fpsnews.ro%2F20-de-metode-de-frauda-la-vot-ce-tehnici-se-folosesc%2F&edit-text= https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ro&tl=en&js=y&prev... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moldavia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moldavia bonus: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unification_of_Romania_and_Moldova http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unification_of_Romania_and_Mold...
logfromblammo 12y ago
So, to reintegrate this datum into the ancestor post... * The newspaper would advertise job openings for reporters with "5 years of experience writing in Moldovan" as a requirement. Reporters that list experience in "Romanian" are arbitrarily culled from consideration. Despite the requirement, 100% of the newspaper is written in English. * The newspaper had a correspondent in Moldova about 3 years ago, who also wrote in English, and that section of the new job description was blindly copied from the advertisement for his replacement, a position which was actually cancelled after 4 weeks, for "business reasons". The newspaper loudly complains about a shortage of qualified reporters. They don't mention that the candidate that they interviewed rejected their offer for its ridiculously low base pay. * The reporter job is eventually outsourced to Moldova. Readers wonder why the local police blotter has so many Andreis, Tanyas, and Nicolais in it, and begin to worry about the Russian troops quartered east of the river.

devindotcom 12y ago

I learned something interesting today from both you guys.

a-priori 12y ago
Glad to help!

spiritplumber 12y ago

Sounds like Italy Italian and Switzerland Italian - I can go to Switzerland and understand what they say, but some turns of phrases are weird (imagine calling a sale "Action!", or saying "I mailed myself to Geneve" when you mean taking the bus).

simi_ 12y ago

> Believe it or not, this topic has come up on Hacker News before. To paraphrase my comment from then (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7324897 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7324897): while Moldovans speak a language that's very similar to Romanian, in a 2004 census 60% self-identified their primary language as 'Moldovan', as compared to 16.5% who say they speak 'Romanian'. You've been refuted in the very comment thread you've linked to, lol. Romania has existed as 4 smaller states [0] for a very long time, inhabited mainly by a people descendant from the native Dacians[1,2] and the colonising Romans. Moldova, the geographical region, was one of these states. Romania's steps towards unification: * in 1601 Michael the Brave manages to unify all Romanian principates, albeit very briefly * in 1881 Walachia and Moldova unify by electing the same leader * Transylvania is added to the mix after WWI * because of our initial German allegiance in WWII, we lose half of Moldova (now the Republic of Moldova) to Russia The point of my short, not that accurate history lesson is that Romanians and Moldavians are the same friggin' people, that had the same language for many, many centuries. Even if the language in the Republic of Moldova would've diverged significantly since WWII (which it has certainly not), it would still be merely a dialect as opposed to a different language. Romanian and Moldavian are less different today than e.g. German and its Austrian dialect are (hence why Moldavian is called a subdialect [3]). > As linguists say, a language is a dialect with an army and a navy. Whether 'Moldovan' is its own language or simply a regional dialect of 'Romanian' is entirely a question of politics. Don't believe most elections/referendums from Moldova. There's an acute Russian influence in the Republic of Moldavia, manifested as both systemic brainwashing of older/poorer people, and control over politics and economy, and that's corroborated by the systemic electoral fraud (also present in Romania today [4,5] – sigh). (Moreover, rumour has it that Russia has armed forces conveniently stationed not too far from the border with Moldova.) 0: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography_of_Romania#History http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography_of_Romania#History 1: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dacia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dacia 2: http://www.daciagroup.com/en http://www.daciagroup.com/en you might have heard of this (don't buy them though, they're cheap for a reason) 3: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moldavian_subdialect_of_Romanian http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moldavian_subdialect_of_Romania... 4: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanian_presidential_election,_2014 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanian_presidential_election,... 5: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ro&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fpsnews.ro%2F20-de-metode-de-frauda-la-vot-ce-tehnici-se-folosesc%2F&edit-text= https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ro&tl=en&js=y&prev... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moldavia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moldavia bonus: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unification_of_Romania_and_Moldova http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unification_of_Romania_and_Mold...

logfromblammo 12y ago

So, to reintegrate this datum into the ancestor post... * The newspaper would advertise job openings for reporters with "5 years of experience writing in Moldovan" as a requirement. Reporters that list experience in "Romanian" are arbitrarily culled from consideration. Despite the requirement, 100% of the newspaper is written in English. * The newspaper had a correspondent in Moldova about 3 years ago, who also wrote in English, and that section of the new job description was blindly copied from the advertisement for his replacement, a position which was actually cancelled after 4 weeks, for "business reasons". The newspaper loudly complains about a shortage of qualified reporters. They don't mention that the candidate that they interviewed rejected their offer for its ridiculously low base pay. * The reporter job is eventually outsourced to Moldova. Readers wonder why the local police blotter has so many Andreis, Tanyas, and Nicolais in it, and begin to worry about the Russian troops quartered east of the river.