4 ms·

This is a serious and important idea.

by johnnyg 12y ago

j2kun 12y ago
Could you explain why? It seems like just as strange a technological barrier (for the average citizen) as the current process of proposing a law.
- toomuchtodo 12y ago
  The average citizen can use Twitter, which has been pivotal in recent revolutions. The Github/git process and format brings something that is crucial to the political process we've been missing: transparency.
  - alfiedotwtf 12y ago
    And to add, it would be cool to put them in a repo when introduced, see history of where they are amended and by who, and then after they are passed see links beside each passage every time they are referenced in court.
    - toomuchtodo 12y ago
      Also, have the entire thing versioned/archived into the Internet Archive.
- bdcravens 12y ago
  Probably easier than the current way of directly influencing legislation (for the average citizen)
- Abundnce10 12y ago
  Imagine if we could analyze a current law (ex. Computer Fraud & Abuse Act) and tweak the parts that are being abused or used in a way that they weren't intended. Or each time a law is added (merged with Master branch) we could see who voted in favor of that law (i.e. greater transparency). Other countries could take our constitution/laws up to a certain point (commit) and then branch off and implement their own approach. There are many ways we could utilize git to improve how laws are created/modified/deleted. Laws are just rules and processes humans have come up with in a best effort to guide society in the right direction, no different than code is just logic programmers come up with to direct servers and clients to interact in a desired way. We've realized the importance of version control in the software realm, it's time to take it's powerful properties and apply it to the political sphere.
  - desas 12y ago
    Wait, isn't there already a website which lists who voted which way in the united states? If not that's astounding.
- johnnyg 12y ago
  I'll try. I think the founders got an impressive amount of the "free and open nation" concepts right. I think the Sears and Roebuck Catalog was an effective tool in its time. I would rather order from an online store than the Sears and Roebuck Catalog. It'll be faster, more responsive, more transparent experience. The store owners intend it and the internet as a medium allows it to a greater extent than was previously possible. I wouldn't want to run a company without the internet and I think the core and true functions of our government are not run at web speed or with web transparency. I feel very disconnected from my elected representatives. I suspect this is a shared feeling. It is hard for me to see them "put out work" and hard for me to understand how good a job they do at anything past staying visible. This is because we still use the best system available to us 150 years ago. What is the best system used today to collaborate? Git. What's the best place to use it? Github. Look at the crazy stuff we are able to build using that tool. Truly we're living the buzz words and "harnessing the internet". I'd rather have 100 OSS project leads deciding government policy than our current 100 senators. I value the culture and medium by which they arrive at decisions so much that I'd make that choice "blind", meaning if I didn't know how red or blue they were, I'd still do it. I think the process/medium/culture is strong enough to override any level of partisan feelings. Were this to occur. Were laws github repos on various topics and proposals were pull requests and amendments were patches we'd have a few core changes. 1. We'd move from fixed terms to respect based terms. Instead of power brokers and entrenched incumbents it'd be about output and the share of a community that continues to be willing to line up behind your vision. 2. Forks. Governments as currently implemented don't allow iterations. Wouldn't it be interesting to declare your county a fork of the "MIT Common Government License" or to yearly declare which license you will abide by. Too hard? Depends on the delivery medium. 3. Education. I increasing hear leaders calling people "folks". I'm a citizen. You're a citizen. I'm obligated to be educated for our democracy to work. When the medium changed we got Khan Academy, CodeSchool and 100s of similar things. I think the impact of this great good is yet to be felt but it gives me hope that these new medium skills can be learned to an extent where they form a basis of participation. Right now a political party is strong if it can get people out to check the right box or out in the street to yell. Wouldn't it really be something if strength was in number of upvoted feature pushes? Number of accepted patches? 4. Voting. It is hard to vote with your feet. It is easy to vote with a +1. I trust upvotes for my products (amazon), jokes (reddit) and computer news (HN). We can't evaluate new ideas on a technical and work flow basis the same way? Seems like we can and should. Seems like checking one box every 4 years or even every local election seems grossly slow. Today I'd like to upvote the "stop torturing people" pull request. I feel like this is reasonable and we could get traction on this. I feel like tomorrow morning the draft could be ready and public viewable. The patch could be vetted and merged next week. In public. At the speed of OSS. Instead, this will be today's news item. Tomorrow it'll fade into the next one. The senators will ultimately decide behind closed doors and the decision will be the wrong one, influenced in the wrong way - not because they're evil or even ill intentioned, but simply because we work in the wrong medium.
- bhousel 12y ago
  Git blame, for starters.

This is a serious and important idea.

by johnnyg 12y ago

This is a serious and important idea.

j2kun 12y ago

Could you explain why? It seems like just as strange a technological barrier (for the average citizen) as the current process of proposing a law.

toomuchtodo 12y ago
The average citizen can use Twitter, which has been pivotal in recent revolutions. The Github/git process and format brings something that is crucial to the political process we've been missing: transparency.
- alfiedotwtf 12y ago
  And to add, it would be cool to put them in a repo when introduced, see history of where they are amended and by who, and then after they are passed see links beside each passage every time they are referenced in court.
  - toomuchtodo 12y ago
    Also, have the entire thing versioned/archived into the Internet Archive.
bdcravens 12y ago
Probably easier than the current way of directly influencing legislation (for the average citizen)
Abundnce10 12y ago
Imagine if we could analyze a current law (ex. Computer Fraud & Abuse Act) and tweak the parts that are being abused or used in a way that they weren't intended. Or each time a law is added (merged with Master branch) we could see who voted in favor of that law (i.e. greater transparency). Other countries could take our constitution/laws up to a certain point (commit) and then branch off and implement their own approach. There are many ways we could utilize git to improve how laws are created/modified/deleted. Laws are just rules and processes humans have come up with in a best effort to guide society in the right direction, no different than code is just logic programmers come up with to direct servers and clients to interact in a desired way. We've realized the importance of version control in the software realm, it's time to take it's powerful properties and apply it to the political sphere.
- desas 12y ago
  Wait, isn't there already a website which lists who voted which way in the united states? If not that's astounding.
johnnyg 12y ago
I'll try. I think the founders got an impressive amount of the "free and open nation" concepts right. I think the Sears and Roebuck Catalog was an effective tool in its time. I would rather order from an online store than the Sears and Roebuck Catalog. It'll be faster, more responsive, more transparent experience. The store owners intend it and the internet as a medium allows it to a greater extent than was previously possible. I wouldn't want to run a company without the internet and I think the core and true functions of our government are not run at web speed or with web transparency. I feel very disconnected from my elected representatives. I suspect this is a shared feeling. It is hard for me to see them "put out work" and hard for me to understand how good a job they do at anything past staying visible. This is because we still use the best system available to us 150 years ago. What is the best system used today to collaborate? Git. What's the best place to use it? Github. Look at the crazy stuff we are able to build using that tool. Truly we're living the buzz words and "harnessing the internet". I'd rather have 100 OSS project leads deciding government policy than our current 100 senators. I value the culture and medium by which they arrive at decisions so much that I'd make that choice "blind", meaning if I didn't know how red or blue they were, I'd still do it. I think the process/medium/culture is strong enough to override any level of partisan feelings. Were this to occur. Were laws github repos on various topics and proposals were pull requests and amendments were patches we'd have a few core changes. 1. We'd move from fixed terms to respect based terms. Instead of power brokers and entrenched incumbents it'd be about output and the share of a community that continues to be willing to line up behind your vision. 2. Forks. Governments as currently implemented don't allow iterations. Wouldn't it be interesting to declare your county a fork of the "MIT Common Government License" or to yearly declare which license you will abide by. Too hard? Depends on the delivery medium. 3. Education. I increasing hear leaders calling people "folks". I'm a citizen. You're a citizen. I'm obligated to be educated for our democracy to work. When the medium changed we got Khan Academy, CodeSchool and 100s of similar things. I think the impact of this great good is yet to be felt but it gives me hope that these new medium skills can be learned to an extent where they form a basis of participation. Right now a political party is strong if it can get people out to check the right box or out in the street to yell. Wouldn't it really be something if strength was in number of upvoted feature pushes? Number of accepted patches? 4. Voting. It is hard to vote with your feet. It is easy to vote with a +1. I trust upvotes for my products (amazon), jokes (reddit) and computer news (HN). We can't evaluate new ideas on a technical and work flow basis the same way? Seems like we can and should. Seems like checking one box every 4 years or even every local election seems grossly slow. Today I'd like to upvote the "stop torturing people" pull request. I feel like this is reasonable and we could get traction on this. I feel like tomorrow morning the draft could be ready and public viewable. The patch could be vetted and merged next week. In public. At the speed of OSS. Instead, this will be today's news item. Tomorrow it'll fade into the next one. The senators will ultimately decide behind closed doors and the decision will be the wrong one, influenced in the wrong way - not because they're evil or even ill intentioned, but simply because we work in the wrong medium.
bhousel 12y ago
Git blame, for starters.