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I disagree about violence. The animal kingdom is inherently violent. Is it socially inappropriate to use violence in most parts of Western civilization? Yes. Bu

by zghst 12y ago

I disagree about violence. The animal kingdom is inherently violent. Is it socially inappropriate to use violence in most parts of Western civilization? Yes. But in other places around the world (and in some cultures and groups in the West), violent behavior is the norm. It's brutal, it has lasting effects, it's demoralizing to the victim, however it is what we are all born with. Does that mean violence is 100% unacceptable? If it wasn't, then we would not eat meat, many sports would not be popular, they wouldn't display fights in movies, etc. As an element of evolution, violence in some form will persist and thrive in our society.

kossTKR 12y ago
So you want to skew the conversation from a discussion the legitimacy of torture, to "is violence bad in it's biological essence". The reason people come to stark conclusions like "all violence is bad" is because they experienced real war, or real violence. Read post war literature. I would rather dismiss violence completely, even though it would be slightly intellectually dishonest, rather than indulge in quasi philosophical conversations on violence in it's biological essence (when the context is war or torture). To me, it's obscene, a mockery of the millions that has lost their lives to war, and a self masturbatory intellectual privilege of the few wealthy enough to live far from the unimaginable horrors of real war.
- zghst 12y ago
  > torture, murder, whatever, it doesn't matter. Doing it in the name of war or national security doesn't make a moral difference. Well it seems that the narrative of your post veered toward violence. I don't agree with sadistic methods for extracting information. Violence would be the absolute last tool in my belt to resolve a conflict. War is brutal and unseemingly unnecessary these days. I do agree that not only the elite, but our society treats war as a game. Most of our society is (successfully) far removed from conflict, many of us don't know what it is like to lose our home, security, a loved one, a limb, etc. all to war. I am fully aware of what our "enemy" is capable of, of what they have done to us, what they do to their own people. I can't say that I get a knee-jerk reaction to the thought that certain parts of our government employs methods of torture when in the back of my mind lies countless stories of reportedly worse violent methods by others. I can't condemn the methods used in the report until I fully read it. I do condemn the overreach of power, misleading our elected officials, and other politically subversive actions.

by zghst 12y ago

kossTKR 12y ago

So you want to skew the conversation from a discussion the legitimacy of torture, to "is violence bad in it's biological essence". The reason people come to stark conclusions like "all violence is bad" is because they experienced real war, or real violence. Read post war literature. I would rather dismiss violence completely, even though it would be slightly intellectually dishonest, rather than indulge in quasi philosophical conversations on violence in it's biological essence (when the context is war or torture). To me, it's obscene, a mockery of the millions that has lost their lives to war, and a self masturbatory intellectual privilege of the few wealthy enough to live far from the unimaginable horrors of real war.

zghst 12y ago
> torture, murder, whatever, it doesn't matter. Doing it in the name of war or national security doesn't make a moral difference. Well it seems that the narrative of your post veered toward violence. I don't agree with sadistic methods for extracting information. Violence would be the absolute last tool in my belt to resolve a conflict. War is brutal and unseemingly unnecessary these days. I do agree that not only the elite, but our society treats war as a game. Most of our society is (successfully) far removed from conflict, many of us don't know what it is like to lose our home, security, a loved one, a limb, etc. all to war. I am fully aware of what our "enemy" is capable of, of what they have done to us, what they do to their own people. I can't say that I get a knee-jerk reaction to the thought that certain parts of our government employs methods of torture when in the back of my mind lies countless stories of reportedly worse violent methods by others. I can't condemn the methods used in the report until I fully read it. I do condemn the overreach of power, misleading our elected officials, and other politically subversive actions.