5 ms·

> In a statement on Monday, Uber said it would "continue to offer UberPop", despite the threat of a fine of up to €100,00 for itself, and one of up to €40,000 f

by cryptoz 12y ago

> In a statement on Monday, Uber said it would "continue to offer UberPop", despite the threat of a fine of up to €100,00 for itself, and one of up to €40,000 for drivers. Classic Uber.

radmuzom 12y ago
True action against scums like Uber will not happen through governments, but some association of locals destroying valuable property or worst case physically harming some Uber executives. While I am dead against such behaviour in general, I would not protest if it happens against Uber. For those of you think this is too far-fetched, in India unions have murdered management in the past, even in the last few years. Again, while I wish that this never happens against anybody, sometimes that is the only course of action against crony capitalism.
- boona 12y ago
  Where is a 'report a user' button when you need one?
  - dang 12y ago
    Flagging comments reports a user. We review all the comments that are heavily flagged along with the accounts that posted them. If you want to give us additional information about abuse, please email hn@ycombinator.com and we'll look into it. Heaven help us if we ever need a button for this.
- throwaway420 12y ago
  I'm genuinely curious as to how Uber is an example of crony capitalism. If anything, aren't the established interests fighting to keep the old taxi medallion system in place an actual example of crony capitalism?
  - radmuzom 12y ago
    Huh? Playing by the rules - however bad the rules are - is NOT crony capitalism. Bribing officials to not follow them is (or one among many aspects of crony capitalism).
  - pgeorgi 12y ago
    Uber has a warchest in the billions. Local taxi companies sometimes have ~50% of their value invested in their 5 cars. The "old taxi medallion system" is a prime example of Uber's sneaky PR: Just because the system might be broken in San Francisco or New York, or whatever is the poster-evil Uber claims to fight, doesn't mean that a) it's like that everywhere, b) Uber is any better.
  - GFK_of_xmaspast 12y ago
    It's all just regular capitalism.
- dang 12y ago
  (This comment was rightly killed by user flags, but I'm going to unkill it for a while so people who want to can read it as an example [1].) There's relevant news in some of these Uber stories, but there's also a growing problem in these threads: outrage escalation in which people vie with one another to say ever worse things about an object of hatred. This comment exemplifies this while taking it to a new low. This is not driven by newfound passion for taxi regulation. It is an internet variant of mob behavior. It triggers an opposing mob of people who like the thing, hating the people who hate the thing. Each side gives the other reason to feel aggrieved. We're past the stage where people throw twigs onto the fire and are about at the point where they're dragging in furniture. When a topic mechanically induces users into violating Hacker News' values in this way, we penalize that topic. It's a poor solution, but the alternative is worse, and civil and substantive discussion is largely impossible in such threads anyway. Obviously, we'd rather not penalize the Uber stories. To avoid this, we need everyone to take pains to edit this reflexive outrage out of each comment you post, regardless of the position it takes. 1. If the comment has been flagkilled again, a summary is that it relishes the idea of physical violence against Uber executives. To read the original, turn "showdead" on in your profile.
  - radmuzom 12y ago
    The 2nd paragraph is just stating a fact - look up Indian news if you do not believe it. The 1st paragraph was definitely intended to provoke - however, don't be surprised if it actually happens. I have talked to numerous "auto" (tuk-tuk) drivers in India who have echoed similar feelings to me. What I say here, or whether it is a new low, does not matter to the people whose livelihoods are getting destroyed due to criminals like Uber (if you break the law, however good your intent might be, you are a criminal).
  - davidw 12y ago
    If you guys don't want the mobs, one step would be to get rid of the outrage articles. Sitting at #1 right now is an article about the CIA torture stuff. It's off topic (politics, mainstream news), but getting all kinds of votes and discussion.
    - 12y ago
- mparramon 12y ago
  This is already happening in Spain, I guess you'll be happy about it: http://www.elmundo.es/cataluna/2014/10/21/544633e8268e3ed87e8b4577.html http://www.elmundo.es/cataluna/2014/10/21/544633e8268e3ed87e...
TazeTSchnitzel 12y ago
Uber doesn't fear a fine for its drivers, since the drivers take the hit and not the company.
- atburrow 12y ago
  Nobody is forcing the drivers to drive, though.
- hazz 12y ago
  Although according to the article it is risking a €100,000 fine on top of €40,000 fine given to the driver. That could rack up pretty quickly if it were on a per-violation basis.
- 650REDHAIR 12y ago
  Uber has paid fines on behalf of the drivers in the past in US cities as long as they were obeying all other laws (seat belts, max occupancy, etc).
aikah 12y ago
To be fair,I'd say that Uber doesn't even have (real) offices in most countries where it operates,therefore making it almost impossible to enforce any court decision against it.It's a bit like Airbnb. Unless one makes the app illegal or block Uber website(which I am against),there is not much the justice can do. On the other hand,just like with Airbnb,for the hosts and drivers,it's another story... I would also add that,if a country really want to kick out these "sharing economy" services,they need to fine the service provider as well as the client.Not that I agree with it,just that,as long as there are clients willing to pay for it,with little risk,there will be hosts and drivers willing to take the risk to be fined.
- pmorici 12y ago
  "there is not much the justice can do." It would be pretty east to shut down. Just give a few cops some phones have them start hailing Ubers and handing out tickets with heavy fines to drivers. Rinse and repeat until word gets around. Uber might still be operating but unless they are going to pay the tickets they will soon be out of drivers.
  - at-fates-hands 12y ago
    I was thinking the same thing. As a driver, (and considering Uber's history and questionable business practices) no way I'd want to get stuck with a 40K euro fine to pay on my own.
  - colmvp 12y ago
    That's pretty much what happened in Ottawa.
  - smackfu 12y ago
    That's assuming that the penalties are enforceable upon the drivers. I wouldn't be surprised to see the laws written exactly the opposite, to protect the drivers from bad actions of the employer.
- TazeTSchnitzel 12y ago
  I wonder if a little Internet censorship might be a possible means of enforcement. Ask the court to order mobile ISPs to block Uber.
zipwitch 12y ago
Uber is so cute, outlaws pretending to be a corporation. How long before the executives are jailed or shot?

by cryptoz 12y ago

> In a statement on Monday, Uber said it would "continue to offer UberPop", despite the threat of a fine of up to €100,00 for itself, and one of up to €40,000 for drivers. Classic Uber.

radmuzom 12y ago

True action against scums like Uber will not happen through governments, but some association of locals destroying valuable property or worst case physically harming some Uber executives. While I am dead against such behaviour in general, I would not protest if it happens against Uber. For those of you think this is too far-fetched, in India unions have murdered management in the past, even in the last few years. Again, while I wish that this never happens against anybody, sometimes that is the only course of action against crony capitalism.

boona 12y ago
Where is a 'report a user' button when you need one?
- dang 12y ago
  Flagging comments reports a user. We review all the comments that are heavily flagged along with the accounts that posted them. If you want to give us additional information about abuse, please email hn@ycombinator.com and we'll look into it. Heaven help us if we ever need a button for this.
throwaway420 12y ago
I'm genuinely curious as to how Uber is an example of crony capitalism. If anything, aren't the established interests fighting to keep the old taxi medallion system in place an actual example of crony capitalism?
- radmuzom 12y ago
  Huh? Playing by the rules - however bad the rules are - is NOT crony capitalism. Bribing officials to not follow them is (or one among many aspects of crony capitalism).
- pgeorgi 12y ago
  Uber has a warchest in the billions. Local taxi companies sometimes have ~50% of their value invested in their 5 cars. The "old taxi medallion system" is a prime example of Uber's sneaky PR: Just because the system might be broken in San Francisco or New York, or whatever is the poster-evil Uber claims to fight, doesn't mean that a) it's like that everywhere, b) Uber is any better.
- GFK_of_xmaspast 12y ago
  It's all just regular capitalism.
dang 12y ago
(This comment was rightly killed by user flags, but I'm going to unkill it for a while so people who want to can read it as an example [1].) There's relevant news in some of these Uber stories, but there's also a growing problem in these threads: outrage escalation in which people vie with one another to say ever worse things about an object of hatred. This comment exemplifies this while taking it to a new low. This is not driven by newfound passion for taxi regulation. It is an internet variant of mob behavior. It triggers an opposing mob of people who like the thing, hating the people who hate the thing. Each side gives the other reason to feel aggrieved. We're past the stage where people throw twigs onto the fire and are about at the point where they're dragging in furniture. When a topic mechanically induces users into violating Hacker News' values in this way, we penalize that topic. It's a poor solution, but the alternative is worse, and civil and substantive discussion is largely impossible in such threads anyway. Obviously, we'd rather not penalize the Uber stories. To avoid this, we need everyone to take pains to edit this reflexive outrage out of each comment you post, regardless of the position it takes. 1. If the comment has been flagkilled again, a summary is that it relishes the idea of physical violence against Uber executives. To read the original, turn "showdead" on in your profile.
- radmuzom 12y ago
  The 2nd paragraph is just stating a fact - look up Indian news if you do not believe it. The 1st paragraph was definitely intended to provoke - however, don't be surprised if it actually happens. I have talked to numerous "auto" (tuk-tuk) drivers in India who have echoed similar feelings to me. What I say here, or whether it is a new low, does not matter to the people whose livelihoods are getting destroyed due to criminals like Uber (if you break the law, however good your intent might be, you are a criminal).
- davidw 12y ago
  If you guys don't want the mobs, one step would be to get rid of the outrage articles. Sitting at #1 right now is an article about the CIA torture stuff. It's off topic (politics, mainstream news), but getting all kinds of votes and discussion.
  - 12y ago
mparramon 12y ago
This is already happening in Spain, I guess you'll be happy about it: http://www.elmundo.es/cataluna/2014/10/21/544633e8268e3ed87e8b4577.html http://www.elmundo.es/cataluna/2014/10/21/544633e8268e3ed87e...

TazeTSchnitzel 12y ago

Uber doesn't fear a fine for its drivers, since the drivers take the hit and not the company.

atburrow 12y ago
Nobody is forcing the drivers to drive, though.
hazz 12y ago
Although according to the article it is risking a €100,000 fine on top of €40,000 fine given to the driver. That could rack up pretty quickly if it were on a per-violation basis.
650REDHAIR 12y ago
Uber has paid fines on behalf of the drivers in the past in US cities as long as they were obeying all other laws (seat belts, max occupancy, etc).

aikah 12y ago

To be fair,I'd say that Uber doesn't even have (real) offices in most countries where it operates,therefore making it almost impossible to enforce any court decision against it.It's a bit like Airbnb. Unless one makes the app illegal or block Uber website(which I am against),there is not much the justice can do. On the other hand,just like with Airbnb,for the hosts and drivers,it's another story... I would also add that,if a country really want to kick out these "sharing economy" services,they need to fine the service provider as well as the client.Not that I agree with it,just that,as long as there are clients willing to pay for it,with little risk,there will be hosts and drivers willing to take the risk to be fined.

pmorici 12y ago
"there is not much the justice can do." It would be pretty east to shut down. Just give a few cops some phones have them start hailing Ubers and handing out tickets with heavy fines to drivers. Rinse and repeat until word gets around. Uber might still be operating but unless they are going to pay the tickets they will soon be out of drivers.
- at-fates-hands 12y ago
  I was thinking the same thing. As a driver, (and considering Uber's history and questionable business practices) no way I'd want to get stuck with a 40K euro fine to pay on my own.
- colmvp 12y ago
  That's pretty much what happened in Ottawa.
- smackfu 12y ago
  That's assuming that the penalties are enforceable upon the drivers. I wouldn't be surprised to see the laws written exactly the opposite, to protect the drivers from bad actions of the employer.
TazeTSchnitzel 12y ago
I wonder if a little Internet censorship might be a possible means of enforcement. Ask the court to order mobile ISPs to block Uber.

zipwitch 12y ago

Uber is so cute, outlaws pretending to be a corporation. How long before the executives are jailed or shot?