5 ms·

That encourages programmers to become a president.

by eccstartup 12y ago

fiatmoney 12y ago
How will programmers preside unless they have role models to look up to?
- eccstartup 12y ago
  News transfer via internet, so the programmers have the chance to show their image more than the others. Furthermore, there is no limit(I guess) what job is a job to become a president.
mkramlich 12y ago
I like the inverse challenge: let's try to replace as much of government as we can with software/hardware. And the simpler, cheaper and more open, the better. Not even kidding. I'm already confident I can replace most/all of the IRS, Treasury, and all the welfare/safety-net type programs with fairly simple, hard-to-abuse software/hardware system. Given that the laws were significantly different and simplified. (And snowball's chance in Hell they'd allow that. Although there are alternate law/tax/welfare configurations which are both physically possible and theoretically sustainable.)
- saraid216 12y ago
  Less talk, more action.
- vertex-four 12y ago
  And I'm confident I can write a program to solve world hunger. Provided that we re-define solving world hunger to mean something simpler.
  - mkramlich 12y ago
    that's rude. shame on you. that type of comment is too common on HN. poisons the community
- devonkim 12y ago
  That's what half the IT BPM projects in government are billed as. Most fail for multitudes of reasons beyond the simple fact that technology projects in public sector are by default failures and ironically due in some measure to the incredible mountain of red tape originally designed to make risk transparent and manageable. There is no way in hell I'd let the current standards of technology in government anywhere near any form of decision making besides providing some crunched data points, which alongside DARPA style R&D is really the only example of tech in government I can cite that's had a solid history of successes. Half of the beltway bandits offer some bullshit Big Data solution after their CEO looks at a Hadoop program and the dollars spent on Big Bullshit Data by enterprise so they can keep their company relevant in passing, heaven help us all when we try to get them to build anything vaguely resembling recommenders and expeet systems.
- normloman 12y ago
  You're overconfident. Replacing massive institutions overnight is a recipe for chaos. What we have now is not perfect, but it works. Within days of instituting your system, there could be a catastrophic oversight that causes mass unrest. Gradual change is far less risky. Programmers love rewriting things from scratch. But experienced programmers know it's often better to see what can be salvaged.
  - mkramlich 12y ago
    you can't know if I'm overconfident or not, you have far too little information, including a lack of details about what I'm envisioning. also I am an experienced programer. More importantly I'm a systems thinker. Also I'm well aware of the need to do thorough analysis, testing and then a gradual roll-out. I also have no illusions about whether such a thing would ever be applied by the US government. I do think it could be used by a small experimental organization, micro-state or virtual nation. It can be overlaid on top an existing government's domain, but just tailored and camouflaged to be compatible legally with any "host" country. Obviously test and tune and critique before making drastic changes to an existing system, or start having large amounts of money pass through it. That should be obvious to any careful, experienced, intelligent person. But you made the rude mistake to assume I didn't. You could have framed your concern as a question instead, and that would have been more constructive, less acidic. Acidic comments are too common on HN. Let's all try to elevate the game.
    - normloman 12y ago
      I still think you've got too much confidence in your plan. The fact that you're already talking micro-nations as a possible solution shows that you've already abandoned reality for cloud kookoo land. (I've been interested in micronations for a long time. Study their history, and you'll see the difficulties in making one last.) I don't think you've done enough research to make such a bold pronouncement, and I'm just warning you to be cautious before recommending a total overhaul of a long entrenched system. I don't intend for my comments to be acidic. Unless you consider criticism acidic. If you haven't guessed by now, Hacker News trends towards self congratulatory circle-jerks. Taking criticism in stride is important for staying grounded.

That encourages programmers to become a president.

fiatmoney 12y ago

How will programmers preside unless they have role models to look up to?

eccstartup 12y ago
News transfer via internet, so the programmers have the chance to show their image more than the others. Furthermore, there is no limit(I guess) what job is a job to become a president.

mkramlich 12y ago

I like the inverse challenge: let's try to replace as much of government as we can with software/hardware. And the simpler, cheaper and more open, the better. Not even kidding. I'm already confident I can replace most/all of the IRS, Treasury, and all the welfare/safety-net type programs with fairly simple, hard-to-abuse software/hardware system. Given that the laws were significantly different and simplified. (And snowball's chance in Hell they'd allow that. Although there are alternate law/tax/welfare configurations which are both physically possible and theoretically sustainable.)

saraid216 12y ago
Less talk, more action.
vertex-four 12y ago
And I'm confident I can write a program to solve world hunger. Provided that we re-define solving world hunger to mean something simpler.
- mkramlich 12y ago
  that's rude. shame on you. that type of comment is too common on HN. poisons the community
devonkim 12y ago
That's what half the IT BPM projects in government are billed as. Most fail for multitudes of reasons beyond the simple fact that technology projects in public sector are by default failures and ironically due in some measure to the incredible mountain of red tape originally designed to make risk transparent and manageable. There is no way in hell I'd let the current standards of technology in government anywhere near any form of decision making besides providing some crunched data points, which alongside DARPA style R&D is really the only example of tech in government I can cite that's had a solid history of successes. Half of the beltway bandits offer some bullshit Big Data solution after their CEO looks at a Hadoop program and the dollars spent on Big Bullshit Data by enterprise so they can keep their company relevant in passing, heaven help us all when we try to get them to build anything vaguely resembling recommenders and expeet systems.
normloman 12y ago
You're overconfident. Replacing massive institutions overnight is a recipe for chaos. What we have now is not perfect, but it works. Within days of instituting your system, there could be a catastrophic oversight that causes mass unrest. Gradual change is far less risky. Programmers love rewriting things from scratch. But experienced programmers know it's often better to see what can be salvaged.
- mkramlich 12y ago
  you can't know if I'm overconfident or not, you have far too little information, including a lack of details about what I'm envisioning. also I am an experienced programer. More importantly I'm a systems thinker. Also I'm well aware of the need to do thorough analysis, testing and then a gradual roll-out. I also have no illusions about whether such a thing would ever be applied by the US government. I do think it could be used by a small experimental organization, micro-state or virtual nation. It can be overlaid on top an existing government's domain, but just tailored and camouflaged to be compatible legally with any "host" country. Obviously test and tune and critique before making drastic changes to an existing system, or start having large amounts of money pass through it. That should be obvious to any careful, experienced, intelligent person. But you made the rude mistake to assume I didn't. You could have framed your concern as a question instead, and that would have been more constructive, less acidic. Acidic comments are too common on HN. Let's all try to elevate the game.
  - normloman 12y ago
    I still think you've got too much confidence in your plan. The fact that you're already talking micro-nations as a possible solution shows that you've already abandoned reality for cloud kookoo land. (I've been interested in micronations for a long time. Study their history, and you'll see the difficulties in making one last.) I don't think you've done enough research to make such a bold pronouncement, and I'm just warning you to be cautious before recommending a total overhaul of a long entrenched system. I don't intend for my comments to be acidic. Unless you consider criticism acidic. If you haven't guessed by now, Hacker News trends towards self congratulatory circle-jerks. Taking criticism in stride is important for staying grounded.