5 ms·

> The other side of that an accusation or suspicion isn't a reasonable basis on which to ruin someone's employability. Would you marry or co-found a company wi

> The other side of that an accusation or suspicion isn't a reasonable basis on which to ruin someone's employability. Would you marry or co-found a company with someone who was charged with a crime like murder, rape, robbery or fraud; but was let go after serving 7 months in prison because of insufficient evidence which could not meet the standard of "beyond reasonable doubt". Unfortunately, rape cases are very hard to convict (even in US) because police & prosecutors does not take rape investigations seriously.

mike_hearn 12y ago
Unfortunately, rape cases are very hard to convict (even in US) because police & prosecutors does not take rape investigations seriously. They are hard to convict because usually there are no witnesses and it turns into he said / she said. I see a lot of people wishing it were not so, but the legal system has severe punishments and thus a high bar for conviction (or that's how it's supposed to be).
- anigbrowl 12y ago
  It's more complex than that. If we have words on the street, and I punch you and break your nose, you won't have any problems getting your complaint taken seriously. Nobody gets their nose broken for pleasure; even boxing clubs and so on have rules of conduct and activities are generally supervised to ensure conduct remains within those boundaries. On the other hand, people have sex for pleasure a lot, and sexual activity is strongly linked to emotion, so if you come to the police with a tale of an unwelcome sexual encounter you have to answer all these extra questions about consent and secondary motive to get taken seriously. If a complainant doesn't show obvious signs of physical trauma indicating a violent struggle, then it can often be a problem to get the complaint of rape to be taken seriously and investigated urgently.
  - mercurial 12y ago
    My impression is that in many countries, police officers are inadequately trained and often do not treat rape and sexual assault as seriously as they deserve.
furyg3 12y ago
I wouldn't want someone to either not marry me or not be my co-founder because of unproven gossip, rumor, allegations, or charges.
- JoeAltmaier 12y ago
  I'm sure. But as the potential partner of such a person, wouldn't it be wise to give a pass to someone with a blot on their record? Especially if there is no lack of candidates for the position or partner? Clearly that would improve their odds of finding an acceptable mate.
  - tomp 12y ago
    This sounds similar to the argument that you should avoid black people because they are more likely to be criminals; clearly that would improve your odds of finding an acceptable mate. Conclusions: individuals are not odds.
    - JoeAltmaier 12y ago
      In a purely mathematical sense, its advantageous to dismiss candidates with any defect or suspected defect. At least when there is an endless supply. The trouble with discrimination is, it works so well.
      - tomp 12y ago
        > its advantageous to dismiss candidates with any defect or suspected defect I agree; the problem is just that the society (and laws) judges different cases of discrimination completely differently, even though the underlying mathematical principles are the same. Don't hire a man because he could be a rapist? OK. Don't hire a woman because she might give birth? Outrageous.
      - coldtea 12y ago
        @tomp >even though the underlying mathematical principles are the same. Don't hire a man because he could be a rapist? OK. Don't hire a woman because she might give birth? Outrageous. Yeah, one is not hiring someone who forces and hurts people for his sexual pleasure, the other is not hiring someone giving birth, something we celebrate, and helps human society continue existing. I don't even know what "the underlying mathematical principles are the same" is supposed to mean, when the ethical differences are so vast. That there might be same chance of him being a rapist to her giving birth? How is that even relevant?

mike_hearn 12y ago

Unfortunately, rape cases are very hard to convict (even in US) because police & prosecutors does not take rape investigations seriously. They are hard to convict because usually there are no witnesses and it turns into he said / she said. I see a lot of people wishing it were not so, but the legal system has severe punishments and thus a high bar for conviction (or that's how it's supposed to be).

anigbrowl 12y ago
It's more complex than that. If we have words on the street, and I punch you and break your nose, you won't have any problems getting your complaint taken seriously. Nobody gets their nose broken for pleasure; even boxing clubs and so on have rules of conduct and activities are generally supervised to ensure conduct remains within those boundaries. On the other hand, people have sex for pleasure a lot, and sexual activity is strongly linked to emotion, so if you come to the police with a tale of an unwelcome sexual encounter you have to answer all these extra questions about consent and secondary motive to get taken seriously. If a complainant doesn't show obvious signs of physical trauma indicating a violent struggle, then it can often be a problem to get the complaint of rape to be taken seriously and investigated urgently.
- mercurial 12y ago
  My impression is that in many countries, police officers are inadequately trained and often do not treat rape and sexual assault as seriously as they deserve.

furyg3 12y ago

I wouldn't want someone to either not marry me or not be my co-founder because of unproven gossip, rumor, allegations, or charges.

JoeAltmaier 12y ago
I'm sure. But as the potential partner of such a person, wouldn't it be wise to give a pass to someone with a blot on their record? Especially if there is no lack of candidates for the position or partner? Clearly that would improve their odds of finding an acceptable mate.
- tomp 12y ago
  This sounds similar to the argument that you should avoid black people because they are more likely to be criminals; clearly that would improve your odds of finding an acceptable mate. Conclusions: individuals are not odds.
  - JoeAltmaier 12y ago
    In a purely mathematical sense, its advantageous to dismiss candidates with any defect or suspected defect. At least when there is an endless supply. The trouble with discrimination is, it works so well.
    - tomp 12y ago
      > its advantageous to dismiss candidates with any defect or suspected defect I agree; the problem is just that the society (and laws) judges different cases of discrimination completely differently, even though the underlying mathematical principles are the same. Don't hire a man because he could be a rapist? OK. Don't hire a woman because she might give birth? Outrageous.
    - coldtea 12y ago
      @tomp >even though the underlying mathematical principles are the same. Don't hire a man because he could be a rapist? OK. Don't hire a woman because she might give birth? Outrageous. Yeah, one is not hiring someone who forces and hurts people for his sexual pleasure, the other is not hiring someone giving birth, something we celebrate, and helps human society continue existing. I don't even know what "the underlying mathematical principles are the same" is supposed to mean, when the ethical differences are so vast. That there might be same chance of him being a rapist to her giving birth? How is that even relevant?