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Everyone has flaws. MLK, Jr. was a terrible womanizer but nobody brings that up because it, rightly so, shouldn't taint his civil rights legacy.

by bennyg 12y ago

thirsteh 12y ago
It's crap to say "everyone has flaws" as if every flaw is equally bad, and in that way dismiss any criticism of Jobs, although I realize we're on Hacker News, so undoubtedly anything critical of Steve Jobs will be downvoted to oblivion. Try the comparison with Christopher Columbus instead — do you think he was a great man with flaws like everyone else? In any case, I don't think Steve Jobs is in the same league as MLK. There's a difference between disowning your child and riding your workers to the brink versus being rude to somebody at the supermarket. Nobody's saying the iPhone isn't a great achievement, it's just not surprising that some people don't like Jobs as he was a pretty terrible person (personally and professionally.)
- huxley 12y ago
  The postscript on disowning Lisa was that he reconciled with Lisa in her teens, she lived with him and he paid for her studies at Harvard. Yes, he was an asshole for rejecting her when he was younger but if he was a terrible person in his 20s, he was less so later in life.
selmnoo 12y ago
In the case of MLK, his womanizing activities were quite separate from his civil rights work. Steve Jobs very much got to the top by screwing over people. He was mean at work. And frequently did illegal things. There's a good argument to be made that were it not for him conspiring to prevent competitors from poaching employees, we'd be able to make more at our work places. I will absolutely never respect him for his streak of immoral/illegal acts. Wozniak is of course more the hacker we should look up to.
- bennyg 12y ago
  Some platitudes and quotes can be removed from the person who said it and still be valid. I think if the quotes from this interview were attributed to some random dude in 1996, that they would be just as valid as coming from Jobs. For some reason people play the opposite of "appealing to authority" to disparage the knowledge because of who it came from. That's intellectually dishonest to me.
  - selmnoo 12y ago
    What? I did not say that Jobs was not a smart businessman, that's not what I'm contending. His quotes in this article are probably very valid and prescient, none of this is what I take issue with. I'm just saying he was a bad person who frequently did illegal and immoral things, and thus he shouldn't be the person we should look up to. Wozniak is a better role model figure for us all.
    - bennyg 12y ago
      Blue boxes were illegal too. I just think it's foolish to look at somebody's actions and apply that as reason to like/not like other actions.
      - thirsteh 12y ago
        Nobody is actually doing that. If anything, you're making the argument that because he did some good acts, his other actions can't be criticized.
        bennyg 12y ago
        No, I'm saying it's foolish to criticize an action based on other actions. Criticize an action on its own merit. I think it's a slippery slope to start saying you won't look up to someone because one subset of actions of theirs is bad. If that's the case then nobody should look up to anybody for there are certainly reprehensible actions littered over everyone's past.
Guthur 12y ago
I think you are referring to the smear campaign orchestrated by the FBI. I know not if he did commit adultery but many of accusations were tenacious at best, and in the main downright misleading to the general public. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther_King,_Jr.#Allegations_of_adultery https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther_King,_Jr.#Allega...
LordKano 12y ago
To be fair, he was accused of being a terrible womanizer by the same FBI who was trying to destroy and discredit him.

Everyone has flaws. MLK, Jr. was a terrible womanizer but nobody brings that up because it, rightly so, shouldn't taint his civil rights legacy.

by bennyg 12y ago

Everyone has flaws. MLK, Jr. was a terrible womanizer but nobody brings that up because it, rightly so, shouldn't taint his civil rights legacy.

thirsteh 12y ago

It's crap to say "everyone has flaws" as if every flaw is equally bad, and in that way dismiss any criticism of Jobs, although I realize we're on Hacker News, so undoubtedly anything critical of Steve Jobs will be downvoted to oblivion. Try the comparison with Christopher Columbus instead — do you think he was a great man with flaws like everyone else? In any case, I don't think Steve Jobs is in the same league as MLK. There's a difference between disowning your child and riding your workers to the brink versus being rude to somebody at the supermarket. Nobody's saying the iPhone isn't a great achievement, it's just not surprising that some people don't like Jobs as he was a pretty terrible person (personally and professionally.)

huxley 12y ago
The postscript on disowning Lisa was that he reconciled with Lisa in her teens, she lived with him and he paid for her studies at Harvard. Yes, he was an asshole for rejecting her when he was younger but if he was a terrible person in his 20s, he was less so later in life.

selmnoo 12y ago

In the case of MLK, his womanizing activities were quite separate from his civil rights work. Steve Jobs very much got to the top by screwing over people. He was mean at work. And frequently did illegal things. There's a good argument to be made that were it not for him conspiring to prevent competitors from poaching employees, we'd be able to make more at our work places. I will absolutely never respect him for his streak of immoral/illegal acts. Wozniak is of course more the hacker we should look up to.

bennyg 12y ago
Some platitudes and quotes can be removed from the person who said it and still be valid. I think if the quotes from this interview were attributed to some random dude in 1996, that they would be just as valid as coming from Jobs. For some reason people play the opposite of "appealing to authority" to disparage the knowledge because of who it came from. That's intellectually dishonest to me.
- selmnoo 12y ago
  What? I did not say that Jobs was not a smart businessman, that's not what I'm contending. His quotes in this article are probably very valid and prescient, none of this is what I take issue with. I'm just saying he was a bad person who frequently did illegal and immoral things, and thus he shouldn't be the person we should look up to. Wozniak is a better role model figure for us all.
  - bennyg 12y ago
    Blue boxes were illegal too. I just think it's foolish to look at somebody's actions and apply that as reason to like/not like other actions.
    - thirsteh 12y ago
      Nobody is actually doing that. If anything, you're making the argument that because he did some good acts, his other actions can't be criticized.
      - bennyg 12y ago
        No, I'm saying it's foolish to criticize an action based on other actions. Criticize an action on its own merit. I think it's a slippery slope to start saying you won't look up to someone because one subset of actions of theirs is bad. If that's the case then nobody should look up to anybody for there are certainly reprehensible actions littered over everyone's past.

Guthur 12y ago

I think you are referring to the smear campaign orchestrated by the FBI. I know not if he did commit adultery but many of accusations were tenacious at best, and in the main downright misleading to the general public. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther_King,_Jr.#Allegations_of_adultery https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther_King,_Jr.#Allega...

LordKano 12y ago

To be fair, he was accused of being a terrible womanizer by the same FBI who was trying to destroy and discredit him.