8 ms·

It's not knee-jerk hate. He was a business genius, but a fairly rotten person. The latter is why a lot of people don't like him. To see why, read about his beha

It's not knee-jerk hate. He was a business genius, but a fairly rotten person. The latter is why a lot of people don't like him. To see why, read about his behavior at Apple, his daughter Lisa, and check out the movie Pirates of Silicon Valley which gives a taste of both.

bennyg 12y ago
Everyone has flaws. MLK, Jr. was a terrible womanizer but nobody brings that up because it, rightly so, shouldn't taint his civil rights legacy.
- thirsteh 12y ago
  It's crap to say "everyone has flaws" as if every flaw is equally bad, and in that way dismiss any criticism of Jobs, although I realize we're on Hacker News, so undoubtedly anything critical of Steve Jobs will be downvoted to oblivion. Try the comparison with Christopher Columbus instead — do you think he was a great man with flaws like everyone else? In any case, I don't think Steve Jobs is in the same league as MLK. There's a difference between disowning your child and riding your workers to the brink versus being rude to somebody at the supermarket. Nobody's saying the iPhone isn't a great achievement, it's just not surprising that some people don't like Jobs as he was a pretty terrible person (personally and professionally.)
  - huxley 12y ago
    The postscript on disowning Lisa was that he reconciled with Lisa in her teens, she lived with him and he paid for her studies at Harvard. Yes, he was an asshole for rejecting her when he was younger but if he was a terrible person in his 20s, he was less so later in life.
- selmnoo 12y ago
  In the case of MLK, his womanizing activities were quite separate from his civil rights work. Steve Jobs very much got to the top by screwing over people. He was mean at work. And frequently did illegal things. There's a good argument to be made that were it not for him conspiring to prevent competitors from poaching employees, we'd be able to make more at our work places. I will absolutely never respect him for his streak of immoral/illegal acts. Wozniak is of course more the hacker we should look up to.
  - bennyg 12y ago
    Some platitudes and quotes can be removed from the person who said it and still be valid. I think if the quotes from this interview were attributed to some random dude in 1996, that they would be just as valid as coming from Jobs. For some reason people play the opposite of "appealing to authority" to disparage the knowledge because of who it came from. That's intellectually dishonest to me.
    - selmnoo 12y ago
      What? I did not say that Jobs was not a smart businessman, that's not what I'm contending. His quotes in this article are probably very valid and prescient, none of this is what I take issue with. I'm just saying he was a bad person who frequently did illegal and immoral things, and thus he shouldn't be the person we should look up to. Wozniak is a better role model figure for us all.
      - bennyg 12y ago
        Blue boxes were illegal too. I just think it's foolish to look at somebody's actions and apply that as reason to like/not like other actions.
        thirsteh 12y ago
        Nobody is actually doing that. If anything, you're making the argument that because he did some good acts, his other actions can't be criticized.
        bennyg 12y ago
        No, I'm saying it's foolish to criticize an action based on other actions. Criticize an action on its own merit. I think it's a slippery slope to start saying you won't look up to someone because one subset of actions of theirs is bad. If that's the case then nobody should look up to anybody for there are certainly reprehensible actions littered over everyone's past.
- Guthur 12y ago
  I think you are referring to the smear campaign orchestrated by the FBI. I know not if he did commit adultery but many of accusations were tenacious at best, and in the main downright misleading to the general public. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther_King,_Jr.#Allegations_of_adultery https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther_King,_Jr.#Allega...
- LordKano 12y ago
  To be fair, he was accused of being a terrible womanizer by the same FBI who was trying to destroy and discredit him.
legohead 12y ago
What I dislike about Jobs was his lack of philanthropism. He had all the money in the world and gave away nothing, which means he didn't give a shit about the rest of the world. He was approached by Gates as part of the Giving Pledge and declined. Then his decision of alternative medicine to treat his curable cancer. He created technology that touched millions if not billions of people, and a lot of those are kids who probably looked up to him, and then he does stupid shit like that which will influence them in a bad way. Yes, people are free to do what they want, but I'm also free to call out their stupidity and selfishness.
- S_A_P 12y ago
  I may be wrong about this, but I believe that Steve Jobs did give away quite a bit of money. I think he always did it anonymously, which, if true I admire much more than someone who has a lot of pomp and circumstance around their philanthropic activities. I cant say this with certainty though, but few people really know what he did with his money so Im in no position to judge...
  - melling 12y ago
    In case there's an interest, here's an article that discusses what is known. http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/471410/20130527/steve-jobs-laurene-powell-apple-philanthropy-stanford.htm#.VIXRpSY8L7p http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/471410/20130527/steve-jobs-la...
  - chongli 12y ago
    I admire much more than someone who has a lot of pomp and circumstance around their philanthropic activities Why? People who make a big deal about their philanthropy often do so in order to encourage others to join the cause. How is that in any way a bad thing?
    - S_A_P 12y ago
      I think that some people may flaunt their philanthropy as a trophy of what a "great person" they are. I personally think there are ways to encourage people to join/support a cause without flaunting the XX millions of dollars you have given to it. I admire someone who supports a cause because they believe in it and not for the kudos the support may bring them. That isn't to say that I don't admire the super wealthy like Bill Gates and his philanthropic causes. I am really glad he has dedicated such a large chunk of wealth to humanitarian causes.

bennyg 12y ago

Everyone has flaws. MLK, Jr. was a terrible womanizer but nobody brings that up because it, rightly so, shouldn't taint his civil rights legacy.

thirsteh 12y ago
It's crap to say "everyone has flaws" as if every flaw is equally bad, and in that way dismiss any criticism of Jobs, although I realize we're on Hacker News, so undoubtedly anything critical of Steve Jobs will be downvoted to oblivion. Try the comparison with Christopher Columbus instead — do you think he was a great man with flaws like everyone else? In any case, I don't think Steve Jobs is in the same league as MLK. There's a difference between disowning your child and riding your workers to the brink versus being rude to somebody at the supermarket. Nobody's saying the iPhone isn't a great achievement, it's just not surprising that some people don't like Jobs as he was a pretty terrible person (personally and professionally.)
- huxley 12y ago
  The postscript on disowning Lisa was that he reconciled with Lisa in her teens, she lived with him and he paid for her studies at Harvard. Yes, he was an asshole for rejecting her when he was younger but if he was a terrible person in his 20s, he was less so later in life.
selmnoo 12y ago
In the case of MLK, his womanizing activities were quite separate from his civil rights work. Steve Jobs very much got to the top by screwing over people. He was mean at work. And frequently did illegal things. There's a good argument to be made that were it not for him conspiring to prevent competitors from poaching employees, we'd be able to make more at our work places. I will absolutely never respect him for his streak of immoral/illegal acts. Wozniak is of course more the hacker we should look up to.
- bennyg 12y ago
  Some platitudes and quotes can be removed from the person who said it and still be valid. I think if the quotes from this interview were attributed to some random dude in 1996, that they would be just as valid as coming from Jobs. For some reason people play the opposite of "appealing to authority" to disparage the knowledge because of who it came from. That's intellectually dishonest to me.
  - selmnoo 12y ago
    What? I did not say that Jobs was not a smart businessman, that's not what I'm contending. His quotes in this article are probably very valid and prescient, none of this is what I take issue with. I'm just saying he was a bad person who frequently did illegal and immoral things, and thus he shouldn't be the person we should look up to. Wozniak is a better role model figure for us all.
    - bennyg 12y ago
      Blue boxes were illegal too. I just think it's foolish to look at somebody's actions and apply that as reason to like/not like other actions.
      - thirsteh 12y ago
        Nobody is actually doing that. If anything, you're making the argument that because he did some good acts, his other actions can't be criticized.
        bennyg 12y ago
        No, I'm saying it's foolish to criticize an action based on other actions. Criticize an action on its own merit. I think it's a slippery slope to start saying you won't look up to someone because one subset of actions of theirs is bad. If that's the case then nobody should look up to anybody for there are certainly reprehensible actions littered over everyone's past.
Guthur 12y ago
I think you are referring to the smear campaign orchestrated by the FBI. I know not if he did commit adultery but many of accusations were tenacious at best, and in the main downright misleading to the general public. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther_King,_Jr.#Allegations_of_adultery https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther_King,_Jr.#Allega...
LordKano 12y ago
To be fair, he was accused of being a terrible womanizer by the same FBI who was trying to destroy and discredit him.

legohead 12y ago

What I dislike about Jobs was his lack of philanthropism. He had all the money in the world and gave away nothing, which means he didn't give a shit about the rest of the world. He was approached by Gates as part of the Giving Pledge and declined. Then his decision of alternative medicine to treat his curable cancer. He created technology that touched millions if not billions of people, and a lot of those are kids who probably looked up to him, and then he does stupid shit like that which will influence them in a bad way. Yes, people are free to do what they want, but I'm also free to call out their stupidity and selfishness.

S_A_P 12y ago
I may be wrong about this, but I believe that Steve Jobs did give away quite a bit of money. I think he always did it anonymously, which, if true I admire much more than someone who has a lot of pomp and circumstance around their philanthropic activities. I cant say this with certainty though, but few people really know what he did with his money so Im in no position to judge...
- melling 12y ago
  In case there's an interest, here's an article that discusses what is known. http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/471410/20130527/steve-jobs-laurene-powell-apple-philanthropy-stanford.htm#.VIXRpSY8L7p http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/471410/20130527/steve-jobs-la...
- chongli 12y ago
  I admire much more than someone who has a lot of pomp and circumstance around their philanthropic activities Why? People who make a big deal about their philanthropy often do so in order to encourage others to join the cause. How is that in any way a bad thing?
  - S_A_P 12y ago
    I think that some people may flaunt their philanthropy as a trophy of what a "great person" they are. I personally think there are ways to encourage people to join/support a cause without flaunting the XX millions of dollars you have given to it. I admire someone who supports a cause because they believe in it and not for the kudos the support may bring them. That isn't to say that I don't admire the super wealthy like Bill Gates and his philanthropic causes. I am really glad he has dedicated such a large chunk of wealth to humanitarian causes.