31 ms·

Right, I'm going to post this at the top level in the hopes that the extremely intelligent people of HN see it and remember why we're all here. As I said below

by aidos 12y ago

Right, I'm going to post this at the top level in the hopes that the extremely intelligent people of HN see it and remember why we're all here. As I said below: This is not the time or place for raising the political issues. I'm keeping my political opinions out of it on this forum and I wish everyone else would have the good sense do the same. If there's ever an article about Gaza on the front page of HN it's removed within a couple of hours because people start banging on about politics. I could quite happy argue about it all day long, but not here, and not now.

bjourne 12y ago
Why are talking about politics so bad? If you dont talk about politics and if you are not allowed to mention Israel's complete blockade of the Gaza Strip then how can you understand why running a startup incubator there is such a feat? Many of the extremely intelligent people on HN are here because they want to change the world in some way. Hopefully for the better. Politics is one of the most powerful tools for improving the world. So not talking about politics makes no sense.
- aidos 12y ago
  It would be wonderful if we could talk about it, and there are other political subjects that get reasonable debate around here (from which I've learnt a lot). But in this case, it always turns into a flamewar. The result is that any interesting article regarding anything happening in Gaza ends up a total mess that has to be flagged and eventually removed from the front page. From the guidelines [0]: "In Comments: Please avoid introducing classic flamewar topics unless you have something genuinely new to say about them." [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- ecommercematt 12y ago
  Without discussing politics, people with widely varying perspectives on Gaza understand that the present reality of life in Gaza poses extra challenges for those engaged in the inherently challenging pursuit of starting a startup. To understand why "talking about politics" is harmful on this site, let's review this excerpt from your post: "if you are not allowed to mention Israel's complete blockade of the Gaza Strip" Hacker News isn't a good place for me to point out my many disagreements with your analysis, but to illustrate my point, I'll point out that: 1) the blockade isn't "complete," 2) Egypt also shares a border with Gaza and enforces a blockade, and 3) that making a claim that you're "not allowed to mention Israel's ____" is either an instance of, or (very probably) merely resembles, bigoted, anti-Jewish narratives about Jewish control of speech, the press, etc. I assume it just bears resemblance to bigotry, but can you understand why to some people particularly sensitive to anti-Jewish prejudice, this would make them a little bit uneasy? "Why are talking about politics so bad?" It isn't bad to talk about politics, but based on my feedback, do you see why your comments above lead to off-topic discussions for Hacker News? You know what really offends me, though? That damn auto-playing ad on the article!
  - bjourne 12y ago
    Connecting what I wrote with anti-semitism, that's just.. no I wont respond to that. Afaik, the blockade maintained by Egypt and Israel is almost "complete. " As in the amount of imports/exports are only a few percent of the pre-blockade levels. Computers and batteries are among the blockaded goods so the laptop the girl in the photo is using, is almost certainly smuggled through using one of the tunnels. Now waxing on what I think about the blockade, that's pretty useless I agree. But stating that it is there, and it has a huge detrimental impact on the people of Gaza that's pretty useful to know, don't you think?
    - ecommercematt 12y ago
      I didn't "connect what you wrote with anti-semitism." I asked if you can understand how something you said could make some people uneasy because it resembles a narrative frequently used to malign them. You "just.." "won't respond to that," which is a shame. While it might be "pretty useful to know," about the blockade, you weren't helpfully stating a fact that someone might not know in order to be "useful." Given the blockade's prominent role in the article (the word "blockade" is in the title and it occurs 3 other times throughout the article), you weren't informing anybody; you were editorializing. Why didn't you mention Egypt's role in the blockade in your comment, singling out Israel as the lone offender? If someone were relying on your comment to learn about the situation as you seem to be suggesting was your intent, they would be under-informed about the major actors in the situation and perhaps misinformed about the nature and severity of the blockade. Your use of the term "complete" to describe the blockade ranges from subjective to incorrect, depending on one's perspective. Is the conversation we're having ideal for HN? I don't think so, but I think it is the inevitable consequence of "talking about politics." Talking about politics is quite different than merely informing people of facts requisite for understanding a given situation, despite your attempts to conflate the two.
      - bjourne 12y ago
        The conversation is not great because you are talking about me and guessing my motives, not about the subject. Afaik, everything from computers, cell phones, livestock, canned fruit and of course people are blockaded. Maybe that doesn't make the blockade "complete" but how would you characterize it then?

by aidos 12y ago

bjourne 12y ago

Why are talking about politics so bad? If you dont talk about politics and if you are not allowed to mention Israel's complete blockade of the Gaza Strip then how can you understand why running a startup incubator there is such a feat? Many of the extremely intelligent people on HN are here because they want to change the world in some way. Hopefully for the better. Politics is one of the most powerful tools for improving the world. So not talking about politics makes no sense.

aidos 12y ago
It would be wonderful if we could talk about it, and there are other political subjects that get reasonable debate around here (from which I've learnt a lot). But in this case, it always turns into a flamewar. The result is that any interesting article regarding anything happening in Gaza ends up a total mess that has to be flagged and eventually removed from the front page. From the guidelines [0]: "In Comments: Please avoid introducing classic flamewar topics unless you have something genuinely new to say about them." [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
ecommercematt 12y ago
Without discussing politics, people with widely varying perspectives on Gaza understand that the present reality of life in Gaza poses extra challenges for those engaged in the inherently challenging pursuit of starting a startup. To understand why "talking about politics" is harmful on this site, let's review this excerpt from your post: "if you are not allowed to mention Israel's complete blockade of the Gaza Strip" Hacker News isn't a good place for me to point out my many disagreements with your analysis, but to illustrate my point, I'll point out that: 1) the blockade isn't "complete," 2) Egypt also shares a border with Gaza and enforces a blockade, and 3) that making a claim that you're "not allowed to mention Israel's ____" is either an instance of, or (very probably) merely resembles, bigoted, anti-Jewish narratives about Jewish control of speech, the press, etc. I assume it just bears resemblance to bigotry, but can you understand why to some people particularly sensitive to anti-Jewish prejudice, this would make them a little bit uneasy? "Why are talking about politics so bad?" It isn't bad to talk about politics, but based on my feedback, do you see why your comments above lead to off-topic discussions for Hacker News? You know what really offends me, though? That damn auto-playing ad on the article!
- bjourne 12y ago
  Connecting what I wrote with anti-semitism, that's just.. no I wont respond to that. Afaik, the blockade maintained by Egypt and Israel is almost "complete. " As in the amount of imports/exports are only a few percent of the pre-blockade levels. Computers and batteries are among the blockaded goods so the laptop the girl in the photo is using, is almost certainly smuggled through using one of the tunnels. Now waxing on what I think about the blockade, that's pretty useless I agree. But stating that it is there, and it has a huge detrimental impact on the people of Gaza that's pretty useful to know, don't you think?
  - ecommercematt 12y ago
    I didn't "connect what you wrote with anti-semitism." I asked if you can understand how something you said could make some people uneasy because it resembles a narrative frequently used to malign them. You "just.." "won't respond to that," which is a shame. While it might be "pretty useful to know," about the blockade, you weren't helpfully stating a fact that someone might not know in order to be "useful." Given the blockade's prominent role in the article (the word "blockade" is in the title and it occurs 3 other times throughout the article), you weren't informing anybody; you were editorializing. Why didn't you mention Egypt's role in the blockade in your comment, singling out Israel as the lone offender? If someone were relying on your comment to learn about the situation as you seem to be suggesting was your intent, they would be under-informed about the major actors in the situation and perhaps misinformed about the nature and severity of the blockade. Your use of the term "complete" to describe the blockade ranges from subjective to incorrect, depending on one's perspective. Is the conversation we're having ideal for HN? I don't think so, but I think it is the inevitable consequence of "talking about politics." Talking about politics is quite different than merely informing people of facts requisite for understanding a given situation, despite your attempts to conflate the two.
    - bjourne 12y ago
      The conversation is not great because you are talking about me and guessing my motives, not about the subject. Afaik, everything from computers, cell phones, livestock, canned fruit and of course people are blockaded. Maybe that doesn't make the blockade "complete" but how would you characterize it then?