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Facebook. Initially developed in: PHP Why: It was what Zuckerberg knew! Todays Value: $200+ Billion

by Sealy 12y ago

nkozyra 12y ago
This (tired) argument successfully says you can build something with anything. But that's not really the topic at hand.
- wpietri 12y ago
  I think it's a great point in this context. Freaking out on beginners because they're using the "wrong" language is often nominally based upon the notion that what tools you use matter a lot to the results you get. But there are a zillion examples of successful products made with terrible tools. And plenty of examples of very well-engineered failures.
  - nkozyra 12y ago
    If you believe the end goal is being a billionaire CEO, sure. If you, however, believe the end goal is being a well-rounded programmer, it's irrelevant. In the context of "I'm learning to program," I think one should look more to objective B than objective A.
    - jisaacks 12y ago
      Or objective c!
      - nkozyra 12y ago
        I deserve that.
    - wpietri 12y ago
      Saying the end goal of being a programmer is being a programmer is ridiculous. The end goal of being a programmer is to make useful things. And you can do that in PHP. Zuckerberg's a billionaire only because he made something that a lot of people get value out of every single day. Further, if being a well-rounded programmer were the goal, then people starting with whatever is fine, because becoming well-rounded means they'll get around to better languages by and by. An I'd add that any programmer who wants to consider themself well-rounded should definitely have used PHP or some equivalently beginner-focused language.
      - nkozyra 12y ago
        > Saying the end goal of being a programmer is being a programmer is ridiculous. Well I didn't say that. Note the not-so-subtle distinction.
        wpietri 12y ago
        It's a distinction without a difference. The goal of being a programmer is also not being a well-rounded programmer. It's still tautological.
        nkozyra 12y ago
        The "goal" of learning to program can be a myriad things, from simple hobby to being a CEO. If one presumes that the goal in some way hinges on being "good" at programming, then learning good habits is certainly a step on any of the possible paths.
  - Sealy 12y ago
    Yeah its a fair statement that it depends on the context. Ultimately it will depend on the beginners' goal however just to highlight one point to beginners with dreams of big exits and start-up goals. The debate about what language is better becomes a moot point when there are clearly large and great companies being built on even the most basic languages.

Facebook. Initially developed in: PHP Why: It was what Zuckerberg knew! Todays Value: $200+ Billion

by Sealy 12y ago

Facebook. Initially developed in: PHP Why: It was what Zuckerberg knew! Todays Value: $200+ Billion

nkozyra 12y ago

This (tired) argument successfully says you can build something with anything. But that's not really the topic at hand.

wpietri 12y ago
I think it's a great point in this context. Freaking out on beginners because they're using the "wrong" language is often nominally based upon the notion that what tools you use matter a lot to the results you get. But there are a zillion examples of successful products made with terrible tools. And plenty of examples of very well-engineered failures.
- nkozyra 12y ago
  If you believe the end goal is being a billionaire CEO, sure. If you, however, believe the end goal is being a well-rounded programmer, it's irrelevant. In the context of "I'm learning to program," I think one should look more to objective B than objective A.
  - jisaacks 12y ago
    Or objective c!
    - nkozyra 12y ago
      I deserve that.
  - wpietri 12y ago
    Saying the end goal of being a programmer is being a programmer is ridiculous. The end goal of being a programmer is to make useful things. And you can do that in PHP. Zuckerberg's a billionaire only because he made something that a lot of people get value out of every single day. Further, if being a well-rounded programmer were the goal, then people starting with whatever is fine, because becoming well-rounded means they'll get around to better languages by and by. An I'd add that any programmer who wants to consider themself well-rounded should definitely have used PHP or some equivalently beginner-focused language.
    - nkozyra 12y ago
      > Saying the end goal of being a programmer is being a programmer is ridiculous. Well I didn't say that. Note the not-so-subtle distinction.
      - wpietri 12y ago
        It's a distinction without a difference. The goal of being a programmer is also not being a well-rounded programmer. It's still tautological.
        nkozyra 12y ago
        The "goal" of learning to program can be a myriad things, from simple hobby to being a CEO. If one presumes that the goal in some way hinges on being "good" at programming, then learning good habits is certainly a step on any of the possible paths.
- Sealy 12y ago
  Yeah its a fair statement that it depends on the context. Ultimately it will depend on the beginners' goal however just to highlight one point to beginners with dreams of big exits and start-up goals. The debate about what language is better becomes a moot point when there are clearly large and great companies being built on even the most basic languages.