4 ms·

RIP Go Seigen

107 points by awwducks 12y ago

bob917 12y ago
I just hope the community accepts him as idiomatic Go.
- girvo 12y ago
  Well, he'll never be able to add generics now.
karamazov 12y ago
For those interested in learning to play, Kiseido Go Server (https://www.gokgs.com https://www.gokgs.com) has a fantastic community of users - from total beginners to professional players. It also has an intro you can skim, but don't spend too much time with it - just like programming, the best way to learn Go is to dive in headfirst. (Don't make the mistake of practicing against a computer to start. AI plays very differently from humans, and you'll develop weird habits.) If you're in New York and interested in an in-person game, send me an email - ben at datanitro dot com.
- MichaelGG 12y ago
  The warnings against AI are overstated. It's fine to start off playing AI. By the time you're out of the 20K range, you'll start noticing that you're only winning against AIs your level because they're acting dumb. It isn't good to scare off beginners. Especially as it can feel a bit tense, playing online. AI warning is good for better players, but they should know better anyways. The real issue with AI is finding one worth playing as a beginner, especially on 9x9. Sure, you can take a big handicap, but I'm not sure there are any useful AIs at that level to have even games with. Another good resource is DGS : dragongoserver.net. An open source turn based (correspondence) Go server. It's easy to play as there's no time pressure, and you can fire up several games at a time.
  - thangalin 12y ago
    I concur. There are several computer players on KGS that are rated between 1kyu and 5dan. Put another way, at my peak I played 5 games against Kyoto's strongest amateur player (~7 dan), holding black. I won 1 and was handily smote (no contest) in the 4 others. After leaving Go for a few years, I've come back to be beaten by the 1kyu AI.
    - karamazov 12y ago
      The high kyu/dan level programs are worth playing against. The ones under 20 kyu aren't - they don't play the sort of game you can learn from, especially when you're getting started and don't know what things are supposed to look like.
  - karamazov 12y ago
    There aren't any useful AIs to have games with at that level - the mistakes they make are totally unlike how real 30 kyu players play. That's why it's not worth playing them. Plus, the folks on KGS are friendly, and there are always plenty of other 30 kyus to play with. No need for it to be tense.
    - kryptiskt 12y ago
      I have always played bots with a handicap ratheer than artificial weakening, I think it's a good learnng experience. Humans are better opponents, but an AI doesn't care if you abandon or save the game, so it's great for when you might be interrupted or can't give the game your full attention.
      - MichaelGG 12y ago
        Exactly. I played hundreds of 9x9 games against Hactar (which is probably 10-5K, but I thought it was supposed to be closer to 20) when I was starting. The freedom to quickly resign when I realized I'd made a critical mistake, the freedom to start and stop anytime- that gave me the boost to start really playing and got me to the low 20s.
  - 12y ago
- muloka 12y ago
  Another great server is the Online Go Server (http://online-go.com/ http://online-go.com/).
fuzzythinker 12y ago
Here's some good reads on him: http://gobase.org/studying/articles/mioch/goseigen/interview-1.html http://gobase.org/studying/articles/mioch/goseigen/interview... https://gogameguru.com/go-seigen/ https://gogameguru.com/go-seigen/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_Seigen http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_Seigen (Almost don't want to post this since the donation is taking over 1/2 the screen now..)
suchire 12y ago
I always found the parallels between hypermodernism in chess, shin fuseki in go (which Go Seigen was one of the most prominant proponents of), and modernism in art to be pretty cool. They were all similar in their challenge of traditional theory, they were almost contemporaneous with each other, and they all in the end didn't replace, but instead augmented the establishments they were rebelling against.
xianshou 12y ago
For a fascinating dramatic depiction of Go's life, not only as the best professional of the era but as a Chinese man in Japanese society, watch The Go Master. Here's a good scene to give you the flavor: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QybTzI-8YTM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QybTzI-8YTM
inDigiNeous 12y ago
Nomen est Omen? Or was his name changed to Go at some point ? Just interested, couldn't find out this in the article.
- xianshou 12y ago
  Nomen est Omen indeed. His Chinese name is Wu Qingyuan, and it just turns out that "Go" is how you pronounce his last name in Japanese.
- herminator 12y ago
  He is originally Chinese, and the Chinese pronunciation is Wu Qingyuan (i.e. his name is written the same in Chinese and Japanese, with the characters 吳清源, but the Japanese pronunciation is different). The character in his name is not the same as the one for the game. Interestingly, both Japanese 'go' and Chinese 'wu' can have the meaning 'five', but that is yet another different character :)
based2 12y ago
http://senseis.xmp.net/ http://senseis.xmp.net/

RIP Go Seigen

107 points by awwducks 12y ago

bob917 12y ago

I just hope the community accepts him as idiomatic Go.

girvo 12y ago
Well, he'll never be able to add generics now.

karamazov 12y ago

For those interested in learning to play, Kiseido Go Server (https://www.gokgs.com https://www.gokgs.com) has a fantastic community of users - from total beginners to professional players. It also has an intro you can skim, but don't spend too much time with it - just like programming, the best way to learn Go is to dive in headfirst. (Don't make the mistake of practicing against a computer to start. AI plays very differently from humans, and you'll develop weird habits.) If you're in New York and interested in an in-person game, send me an email - ben at datanitro dot com.

MichaelGG 12y ago
The warnings against AI are overstated. It's fine to start off playing AI. By the time you're out of the 20K range, you'll start noticing that you're only winning against AIs your level because they're acting dumb. It isn't good to scare off beginners. Especially as it can feel a bit tense, playing online. AI warning is good for better players, but they should know better anyways. The real issue with AI is finding one worth playing as a beginner, especially on 9x9. Sure, you can take a big handicap, but I'm not sure there are any useful AIs at that level to have even games with. Another good resource is DGS : dragongoserver.net. An open source turn based (correspondence) Go server. It's easy to play as there's no time pressure, and you can fire up several games at a time.
- thangalin 12y ago
  I concur. There are several computer players on KGS that are rated between 1kyu and 5dan. Put another way, at my peak I played 5 games against Kyoto's strongest amateur player (~7 dan), holding black. I won 1 and was handily smote (no contest) in the 4 others. After leaving Go for a few years, I've come back to be beaten by the 1kyu AI.
  - karamazov 12y ago
    The high kyu/dan level programs are worth playing against. The ones under 20 kyu aren't - they don't play the sort of game you can learn from, especially when you're getting started and don't know what things are supposed to look like.
- karamazov 12y ago
  There aren't any useful AIs to have games with at that level - the mistakes they make are totally unlike how real 30 kyu players play. That's why it's not worth playing them. Plus, the folks on KGS are friendly, and there are always plenty of other 30 kyus to play with. No need for it to be tense.
  - kryptiskt 12y ago
    I have always played bots with a handicap ratheer than artificial weakening, I think it's a good learnng experience. Humans are better opponents, but an AI doesn't care if you abandon or save the game, so it's great for when you might be interrupted or can't give the game your full attention.
    - MichaelGG 12y ago
      Exactly. I played hundreds of 9x9 games against Hactar (which is probably 10-5K, but I thought it was supposed to be closer to 20) when I was starting. The freedom to quickly resign when I realized I'd made a critical mistake, the freedom to start and stop anytime- that gave me the boost to start really playing and got me to the low 20s.
- 12y ago
muloka 12y ago
Another great server is the Online Go Server (http://online-go.com/ http://online-go.com/).

fuzzythinker 12y ago

Here's some good reads on him: http://gobase.org/studying/articles/mioch/goseigen/interview-1.html http://gobase.org/studying/articles/mioch/goseigen/interview... https://gogameguru.com/go-seigen/ https://gogameguru.com/go-seigen/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_Seigen http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_Seigen (Almost don't want to post this since the donation is taking over 1/2 the screen now..)

suchire 12y ago

I always found the parallels between hypermodernism in chess, shin fuseki in go (which Go Seigen was one of the most prominant proponents of), and modernism in art to be pretty cool. They were all similar in their challenge of traditional theory, they were almost contemporaneous with each other, and they all in the end didn't replace, but instead augmented the establishments they were rebelling against.

xianshou 12y ago

For a fascinating dramatic depiction of Go's life, not only as the best professional of the era but as a Chinese man in Japanese society, watch The Go Master. Here's a good scene to give you the flavor: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QybTzI-8YTM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QybTzI-8YTM

inDigiNeous 12y ago

Nomen est Omen? Or was his name changed to Go at some point ? Just interested, couldn't find out this in the article.

xianshou 12y ago
Nomen est Omen indeed. His Chinese name is Wu Qingyuan, and it just turns out that "Go" is how you pronounce his last name in Japanese.
herminator 12y ago
He is originally Chinese, and the Chinese pronunciation is Wu Qingyuan (i.e. his name is written the same in Chinese and Japanese, with the characters 吳清源, but the Japanese pronunciation is different). The character in his name is not the same as the one for the game. Interestingly, both Japanese 'go' and Chinese 'wu' can have the meaning 'five', but that is yet another different character :)

based2 12y ago

http://senseis.xmp.net/ http://senseis.xmp.net/