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If we're talking about general educational courses, then accessibility is important. Dynamic object-oriented languages can offer immediate feedback and gratific

by Klinky 12y ago

If we're talking about general educational courses, then accessibility is important. Dynamic object-oriented languages can offer immediate feedback and gratification which can feed into keeping students engaged and motivated. There is also something to be said about the low-level features of C not being as important today as they once were. Many people make their living in languages that don't involve low-level access at all, and may even go their entire lives relying on a garbage collector. C offers freedom, control, understanding, but those features held as virtues by some feel more like busywork and bookkeeping to others.

tptacek 12y ago
Are we talking about vocational training or computer science? If the former, Python or Ruby is probably all you'll need.
- Klinky 12y ago
  I think we're talking about first languages, which many people will be introduced to in either college, advanced placement courses, or standard high school classes. The USA has generally poor vocational training opportunities, especially for coding. If we're talking about learning a language on your own, there is no way to force anyone to learn the specific language you want them too, so going down that rabbit hole seems moot. Some people will have the drive and opportunity to learn to code in C, just like the author had his father's car with a manual transmission and parents who forced him to learn how to use it. However, not everyone is coming from the same background. Joe Nerd Jr could probably start with C. Joe Public Jr probably needs an easier introduction. We don't have med students immediately dissecting cadavers, nor do we have basic math classes that start you off with calculus. While some people will feel starting with these advanced classes makes you understand the subject better, many people will bomb out completely and become alienated with the topic. Perhaps some like the concept of survival of the fittest, but it may not be beneficial to society in the long run. Most computer science students end up in the programming field. They do not stay in academia perpetually. Usually if someone wants to become a pro coder, they're told to go get a BS in CS. We could debate what a True Computer Scientist is, but in the end most people are there because they like technology and want a well paying job. Some just won't be hardcore enough for some people's liking.
  - tptacek 12y ago
    Wait, we do have med students dissect cadavers immediately, right? Anatomy lab is a year 1 course.
    - aroberge 12y ago
      I don't know about the country where you live but in Canada, student take some anatomy and physiology classes first before they are admitted into a medical program, and they certainly do not dissect human cadavers in those anatomy courses.

by Klinky 12y ago

tptacek 12y ago

Are we talking about vocational training or computer science? If the former, Python or Ruby is probably all you'll need.

Klinky 12y ago
I think we're talking about first languages, which many people will be introduced to in either college, advanced placement courses, or standard high school classes. The USA has generally poor vocational training opportunities, especially for coding. If we're talking about learning a language on your own, there is no way to force anyone to learn the specific language you want them too, so going down that rabbit hole seems moot. Some people will have the drive and opportunity to learn to code in C, just like the author had his father's car with a manual transmission and parents who forced him to learn how to use it. However, not everyone is coming from the same background. Joe Nerd Jr could probably start with C. Joe Public Jr probably needs an easier introduction. We don't have med students immediately dissecting cadavers, nor do we have basic math classes that start you off with calculus. While some people will feel starting with these advanced classes makes you understand the subject better, many people will bomb out completely and become alienated with the topic. Perhaps some like the concept of survival of the fittest, but it may not be beneficial to society in the long run. Most computer science students end up in the programming field. They do not stay in academia perpetually. Usually if someone wants to become a pro coder, they're told to go get a BS in CS. We could debate what a True Computer Scientist is, but in the end most people are there because they like technology and want a well paying job. Some just won't be hardcore enough for some people's liking.
- tptacek 12y ago
  Wait, we do have med students dissect cadavers immediately, right? Anatomy lab is a year 1 course.
  - aroberge 12y ago
    I don't know about the country where you live but in Canada, student take some anatomy and physiology classes first before they are admitted into a medical program, and they certainly do not dissect human cadavers in those anatomy courses.