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> "Flying 1kg in the air is much safer than flying 600kilos machines. If the thing crashes [...] you lose 1000, 2000 dollars, not a life. If you're flying a dr

by objclxt 12y ago

> "Flying 1kg in the air is much safer than flying 600kilos machines. If the thing crashes [...] you lose 1000, 2000 dollars, not a life. If you're flying a drone in an urban area then no, that's not true. There's a reason helmets are mandatory on construction sites: a 1kg object heading at speed towards your head has the potential for serious injury. You seem to have assumed the only loss when a drone crashes is the cost of the machine itself, but you're forgetting you'll be liable for any other damage you cause. Requiring drone operators to have insurance (which I bet you don't have) seems like a good first step. We require it for cars, why not drones?

burke 12y ago
> a 1kg object heading at speed towards your head has the potential for serious injury. I'm not sure sure about this. Most drones are made of such low-density material (and obviously have some large aerodynamic components) that I have a hard time buying it could cause much injury even if it fell at terminal velocity onto someone's head.
- apapli 12y ago
  I've been flying RC planes for years, and have seen many really bad injuries because people don't consider a plastic propeller spinning at a few thousand RPM "dangerous". Most people don't think of drones (quad copters etc) as essentially flying lawnmowers. If you find yourself at the wrong end of a prop I can assure you that your opinion will change. The weight of them is probably the least important factor when it comes to safety.
  - bigiain 12y ago
    I've hit myself with my own 5" and 6" plastic props on my ~400g class quadcopters with ~120W motors (several times actually), and it _hurts_, but I haven't "injured myself" (though I have no doubt a mother of a small ch9ild I hit would view that differently even with identical results - a few red marks and a bloodstream full of adrenaline). I have a _great_ deal of respect/fear of friends 12 and 14" carbon fiber props with ~2000W motors spinning them. One friends main machine is arguable 8 flying lawnmowers strapped together, with all the blade guards removed. And I fear that uneducated or uncaring owners of that second class of "unambiguously dangerous machines" are reasonably likely to impact my enjoyment of the sub 500g class machines. The "drones bad" meme is already affecting people who fly ~300g gliders - a lot of people flying F3K handlaunch gliders are getting booted out of various parks (including, I believe, all US Federal National Parks?). These things literally weigh 50% less than a football or only 50% more than a Frisbee, and - and have the added safety of being under active control by the pilot (who _really_ doen't want to hit anyone with his expensive and delicate toy).
  - rectang 12y ago
    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/06/nyregion/remote-controlled-copter-fatally-strikes-pilot-at-park.html http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/06/nyregion/remote-controlled... A remote-controlled copter killed this poor fellow.
- sjtrny 12y ago
  My quadcopter weighs 1.4kg fully loaded and is made from glass fibre arms and FR-4 (G10) centre plates. If I crash and land on an arm from 5m up then that arm will usually snap in half from the force of the impact. There's enough weight there to do serious damage to someone if it fell from a few hundred metres. Especially if it hits you with the G10 plates rather than the glass fibre arms.
bigiain 12y ago
Serious (but I'll admit, slightly inflammatory) question. Do you think people kicking a football round "in an urban area" or thowing a Frisbee in a park with other people around should be "required to have insurance"?
- sjtrny 12y ago
  Footballs and frisbees don't weigh 1kg, they are made from soft materials and don't usually get sent 100m into the air.
  - bigiain 12y ago
    According to wikipedia, "The ball's weight must be in the range of 410 to 450 grams", and "Frisbee® disc 200g heavyweights are extremely fun discs to throw around". I have two quadcopters who's all-up flying weights sit in between a Frisbee and a football. I rarely get them much above treetop height (one of them usually flys with an altitude limiter set to 70m, and the only times I've ever had it cut in is when flying up high to test it's working).
    - sjtrny 12y ago
      Then it's not an issue. Obviously like road use the solution is to have license/insurance based on vehicle type and usage.
- freshhawk 12y ago
  That's a serious question but you chose two things that would not seriously hurt someone if they hit them? I doubt the seriousness of your question.
  - bigiain 12y ago
    Is _is_ a serious question, because everyone's talking about "drones" as though they're _all_ 1kg+ "flying lawnmowers". I've hit myself (both intentionally and unintentionally by being reckless) with both my ~320g and my ~380g quadcopters. I know for sure that they are no more a risk of "seriously hurting someone" than a freak Frisbee or bicycle or rollerskate accident (those last two of which I've got stories about bystanders being hospitalised by in the last ~12 months). As hinted, I know I set that question up in an intentionally argumentative way - but that's in response to very few people acknowledging the difference between a ~30g Hubsan X4, a 380g Parrot AR Drone, and a 3kg DJI Phantom 2. Two of thosw "classes of quadcopters" weigh less than a football.

by objclxt 12y ago

burke 12y ago

> a 1kg object heading at speed towards your head has the potential for serious injury. I'm not sure sure about this. Most drones are made of such low-density material (and obviously have some large aerodynamic components) that I have a hard time buying it could cause much injury even if it fell at terminal velocity onto someone's head.

apapli 12y ago
I've been flying RC planes for years, and have seen many really bad injuries because people don't consider a plastic propeller spinning at a few thousand RPM "dangerous". Most people don't think of drones (quad copters etc) as essentially flying lawnmowers. If you find yourself at the wrong end of a prop I can assure you that your opinion will change. The weight of them is probably the least important factor when it comes to safety.
- bigiain 12y ago
  I've hit myself with my own 5" and 6" plastic props on my ~400g class quadcopters with ~120W motors (several times actually), and it _hurts_, but I haven't "injured myself" (though I have no doubt a mother of a small ch9ild I hit would view that differently even with identical results - a few red marks and a bloodstream full of adrenaline). I have a _great_ deal of respect/fear of friends 12 and 14" carbon fiber props with ~2000W motors spinning them. One friends main machine is arguable 8 flying lawnmowers strapped together, with all the blade guards removed. And I fear that uneducated or uncaring owners of that second class of "unambiguously dangerous machines" are reasonably likely to impact my enjoyment of the sub 500g class machines. The "drones bad" meme is already affecting people who fly ~300g gliders - a lot of people flying F3K handlaunch gliders are getting booted out of various parks (including, I believe, all US Federal National Parks?). These things literally weigh 50% less than a football or only 50% more than a Frisbee, and - and have the added safety of being under active control by the pilot (who _really_ doen't want to hit anyone with his expensive and delicate toy).
- rectang 12y ago
  http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/06/nyregion/remote-controlled-copter-fatally-strikes-pilot-at-park.html http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/06/nyregion/remote-controlled... A remote-controlled copter killed this poor fellow.
sjtrny 12y ago
My quadcopter weighs 1.4kg fully loaded and is made from glass fibre arms and FR-4 (G10) centre plates. If I crash and land on an arm from 5m up then that arm will usually snap in half from the force of the impact. There's enough weight there to do serious damage to someone if it fell from a few hundred metres. Especially if it hits you with the G10 plates rather than the glass fibre arms.

bigiain 12y ago

Serious (but I'll admit, slightly inflammatory) question. Do you think people kicking a football round "in an urban area" or thowing a Frisbee in a park with other people around should be "required to have insurance"?

sjtrny 12y ago
Footballs and frisbees don't weigh 1kg, they are made from soft materials and don't usually get sent 100m into the air.
- bigiain 12y ago
  According to wikipedia, "The ball's weight must be in the range of 410 to 450 grams", and "Frisbee® disc 200g heavyweights are extremely fun discs to throw around". I have two quadcopters who's all-up flying weights sit in between a Frisbee and a football. I rarely get them much above treetop height (one of them usually flys with an altitude limiter set to 70m, and the only times I've ever had it cut in is when flying up high to test it's working).
  - sjtrny 12y ago
    Then it's not an issue. Obviously like road use the solution is to have license/insurance based on vehicle type and usage.
freshhawk 12y ago
That's a serious question but you chose two things that would not seriously hurt someone if they hit them? I doubt the seriousness of your question.
- bigiain 12y ago
  Is _is_ a serious question, because everyone's talking about "drones" as though they're _all_ 1kg+ "flying lawnmowers". I've hit myself (both intentionally and unintentionally by being reckless) with both my ~320g and my ~380g quadcopters. I know for sure that they are no more a risk of "seriously hurting someone" than a freak Frisbee or bicycle or rollerskate accident (those last two of which I've got stories about bystanders being hospitalised by in the last ~12 months). As hinted, I know I set that question up in an intentionally argumentative way - but that's in response to very few people acknowledging the difference between a ~30g Hubsan X4, a 380g Parrot AR Drone, and a 3kg DJI Phantom 2. Two of thosw "classes of quadcopters" weigh less than a football.