7 ms·

Heathrow plane in near miss with drone

33 points by kartikkumar 12y ago

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
zkhalique 12y ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDKdvTecYAM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDKdvTecYAM
- chhantyal 12y ago
  Haha. Thanks for the link, I didn't know they call it `near miss`.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- wsc981 12y ago
  Heh, I wanted to link that one as well. Though you might get down voted, not everyone here seems to like funny posts that relate somewhat to the linked article.
super_sloth 12y ago
The reference to the unmanned large planes at the bottom: "Mr McAuslan said there was an urgent need for rules to be tightened before much larger unmanned cargo planes - potentially the size of a Boeing 737 - took to the skies." sounds intriguing. Are we really close to that happening? I was under the impression the CAA restrictions around unmanned aircraft were still very tight.
- petercooper 12y ago
  As an aside, I found the reference quite funny. In an article about how a random drone endangered a plane, it read more like "we need to urgently tighten the rules before people try and fly 737-sized drones over Heathrow!"
Htsthbjig 12y ago
10 kilo drones? Man, I have 1 kilo machines and they are huge and (very)expensive and everywhere I go people say it is the first time they see such a monster. What this pilot saw was probably a 120 grams toy that an aircraft engine could eat for breakfast(engines are tested for much bigger birds impact). It is an expensive repair but to say that the plane goes "near miss" is a gross exaggeration(You near miss another plane, like a Cessna). With 10 kilos we are talking about professional machines, with hybrid power source, military or highly professional. Probably they are 10 of those in all UK. We need drone regulation, today it is in limbo. Professional services also have to be legalized and regulated(they are not but people are using them anyway for movies, for electrical grid control, they are so useful). They don't want to because those machines compete with helicopters and planes at aerial jobs but much cheaper and without pilot's risk of dying. Flying 1kg in the air is much safer than flying 600kilos machines. If the thing crashes, which is really difficult now with GPS and automatic control, you lose 1000, 2000 dollars, not a life. Helicopters are very dangerous near the ground, if something goes wrong, like a gust of wind you are dead. So you need to get high enough, which means using big and expensive camera gear. With a drone it is so much simple.
- nakedrobot2 12y ago
  The DJI Phantom is 2 kilos, and it is small. What is this 1 kilo monster you speak of?
  - mbrameld 12y ago
    Here's a pretty popular one that weighs about 500g ready to fly: http://www.getfpv.com/qav250-mini-fpv-quadcopter-rtf-carbon-fiber-edition.html http://www.getfpv.com/qav250-mini-fpv-quadcopter-rtf-carbon-...
  - robhu 12y ago
    The Phantom 2 is 1000g including battery and propellers[1]. Is the Phantom 1 really twice as heavy? [1] http://www.dji.com/product/phantom-2/spec http://www.dji.com/product/phantom-2/spec
- objclxt 12y ago
dghughes 12y ago
The word "drone" is such a buzzword, I used to have a radio controlled aka RC plane as a kid and the US military tends to a military remote controlled aircraft an Unmanned Aerial Vehicle UAV. But drone is single word easy to say with some buzz to it and I guess it also sounds ominous. My understanding is a drone in the military sense is a flying target a UAV is not. It took 20 years for people to stop calling anything tech/Internet related "cyber" now calling anything that flies is a drone that word will be with us until 2034.
- lotsofmangos 12y ago
  I suspect it will be with us until the drones start asking us to stop using it because they find it derogatory.
- Evolved 12y ago
  Drone appears to be more of a colloquial term but also seems to be widely accepted to mean the same thing as UAV[1][2]. British [1] http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/drone http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/drone English [2] http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/drone http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/drone Regarding "cyber" you may want to tell retailers to stop using Cyber Monday, the FBI to rename its Cyber Crimes division, the CIA to rename its Cyber Security division and the NSA to rename its Cyber Operations unit. I agree that cyber is an old-school term and even sounds reminiscent of The Net and Hackers but it's doubtful it will go away any time soon.
- unclebucknasty 12y ago
  While we're on the subject of abused words, calling RC-machines/devices "robots" drives me a little nuts. To my mind, it's not a robot if someone is standing there with a remote-control initiating its every move. It's just an RC vehicle. But, you see this even in competitions wherein schools will build various RC-devices to face off in "robot battles". It's cool that they're imagining and building this stuff, and it's a lot of fun, but they are NOT robots!
rasz_pl 12y ago
I nearly got pregnant GCHQ intercepts nearly all of the intern... oh wait, this one is actually true More regulatory capture incoming. It is already illegal to fly RC models near airports, but hey A DRONE and NEAR MISS, lets label them airborne terrorists.
- harryh 12y ago
  That's not what regulatory capture means.
nakedrobot2 12y ago
I have heard about so many of these "airplane nearly hit a drone" scaremongering stories that I simply don't believe it anymore, period. I think it could have been a bird, or something else that simply passed by too quickly to be identified by the pilot, and they're calling it a "drone" just because they wouldn't mind getting those things banned anyway.
- lafar6502 12y ago
  I havent heard of any plane that nearly missed a drone
  - neurotech1 12y ago
    I've only heard of two incidents. One was investigated by the NTSB and (IMO) both the pilots of the manned aircraft and the RC aircraft were partially at fault. NTSB report blamed the RC pilot. No injuries but the manned aircraft was damaged, and the RC aircraft destroyed. This occurred at low-level ( < 50 ft) over the runway. The second was that the small military UAV was blown off course due to changing winds, while a jet was doing a ground power run. The RC aircraft crashed short, with some debris hitting the aircraft wing. UAV operations were authorized, although the Tower controller and Ground (Movement) controller didn't foresee the hazard.
kartikkumar 12y ago
This is an interesting issue to me moving forward. Regardless of whether this was a "real" near miss or not, the fact of the matter is that drones/UAVs/whatever-you-call-them are going to be a much more pervasive part out our reality in the near future. Should we be regulating their use? What should the legal framework be? Should you be required to have a license with proven flying hours, much like required to become a pilot? Should the CAA, FAA and other such bodies hold complete jurisdiction? Or should it fall under the purview of a dedicated organ? I think from a technology perspective this is going to be very interesting. I'm starting to work on proximity operations in space, specifically designing robust Guidance, Navigation & Control (GNC) systems to ensure safe and effective operations. I just got off the phone with a friend who's startup is in stealth mode at the moment, looking at developing GNC algorithms for UAVs that offer real-time, autonomous operations with collision avoidance etc. in the absence of GPS. Going to be fascinating to see how the technology in this space develops. EDIT: Fixed typos
- keeperofdakeys 12y ago
  There is already laws regarding RC planes, and if this article is to be believed, they were already broken for this UAV. The rules are much tighter within a few kilometres of airports, where maximum height is much lower to allow for planes on approach or taking off. It's just a pity that most operators are not aware of these laws, and may cause a larger amount of regulation for the area.
- jschwartzi 12y ago
  Insofar as the FAA has jurisdiction over civilian airspace, I think that UAVs which are operating within that airspace must be subject to the same rules and regulations as manned aircraft, or there will be an accident. Just because it's unmanned doesn't mean that the Pauli Exclusion Principle doesn't apply to it.
  - xxxyy 12y ago
    Can confirm this with respect to Polish aviation law. Flying a drone, or just any other aircraft - manned or unmanned - in a controlled space without prior authorization is a criminal offense. There is no question about it. Heathrow CTR/TMA is obviously a controlled airspace. The law in the rest of the EU should be similar, as we are all governed by EASA.

33 points by kartikkumar 12y ago

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

zkhalique 12y ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDKdvTecYAM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDKdvTecYAM

chhantyal 12y ago
Haha. Thanks for the link, I didn't know they call it `near miss`.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
wsc981 12y ago
Heh, I wanted to link that one as well. Though you might get down voted, not everyone here seems to like funny posts that relate somewhat to the linked article.

super_sloth 12y ago

The reference to the unmanned large planes at the bottom: "Mr McAuslan said there was an urgent need for rules to be tightened before much larger unmanned cargo planes - potentially the size of a Boeing 737 - took to the skies." sounds intriguing. Are we really close to that happening? I was under the impression the CAA restrictions around unmanned aircraft were still very tight.

petercooper 12y ago
As an aside, I found the reference quite funny. In an article about how a random drone endangered a plane, it read more like "we need to urgently tighten the rules before people try and fly 737-sized drones over Heathrow!"

Htsthbjig 12y ago

10 kilo drones? Man, I have 1 kilo machines and they are huge and (very)expensive and everywhere I go people say it is the first time they see such a monster. What this pilot saw was probably a 120 grams toy that an aircraft engine could eat for breakfast(engines are tested for much bigger birds impact). It is an expensive repair but to say that the plane goes "near miss" is a gross exaggeration(You near miss another plane, like a Cessna). With 10 kilos we are talking about professional machines, with hybrid power source, military or highly professional. Probably they are 10 of those in all UK. We need drone regulation, today it is in limbo. Professional services also have to be legalized and regulated(they are not but people are using them anyway for movies, for electrical grid control, they are so useful). They don't want to because those machines compete with helicopters and planes at aerial jobs but much cheaper and without pilot's risk of dying. Flying 1kg in the air is much safer than flying 600kilos machines. If the thing crashes, which is really difficult now with GPS and automatic control, you lose 1000, 2000 dollars, not a life. Helicopters are very dangerous near the ground, if something goes wrong, like a gust of wind you are dead. So you need to get high enough, which means using big and expensive camera gear. With a drone it is so much simple.

nakedrobot2 12y ago
The DJI Phantom is 2 kilos, and it is small. What is this 1 kilo monster you speak of?
- mbrameld 12y ago
  Here's a pretty popular one that weighs about 500g ready to fly: http://www.getfpv.com/qav250-mini-fpv-quadcopter-rtf-carbon-fiber-edition.html http://www.getfpv.com/qav250-mini-fpv-quadcopter-rtf-carbon-...
- robhu 12y ago
  The Phantom 2 is 1000g including battery and propellers[1]. Is the Phantom 1 really twice as heavy? [1] http://www.dji.com/product/phantom-2/spec http://www.dji.com/product/phantom-2/spec
objclxt 12y ago

dghughes 12y ago

The word "drone" is such a buzzword, I used to have a radio controlled aka RC plane as a kid and the US military tends to a military remote controlled aircraft an Unmanned Aerial Vehicle UAV. But drone is single word easy to say with some buzz to it and I guess it also sounds ominous. My understanding is a drone in the military sense is a flying target a UAV is not. It took 20 years for people to stop calling anything tech/Internet related "cyber" now calling anything that flies is a drone that word will be with us until 2034.

lotsofmangos 12y ago
I suspect it will be with us until the drones start asking us to stop using it because they find it derogatory.
Evolved 12y ago
Drone appears to be more of a colloquial term but also seems to be widely accepted to mean the same thing as UAV[1][2]. British [1] http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/drone http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/drone English [2] http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/drone http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/drone Regarding "cyber" you may want to tell retailers to stop using Cyber Monday, the FBI to rename its Cyber Crimes division, the CIA to rename its Cyber Security division and the NSA to rename its Cyber Operations unit. I agree that cyber is an old-school term and even sounds reminiscent of The Net and Hackers but it's doubtful it will go away any time soon.
unclebucknasty 12y ago
While we're on the subject of abused words, calling RC-machines/devices "robots" drives me a little nuts. To my mind, it's not a robot if someone is standing there with a remote-control initiating its every move. It's just an RC vehicle. But, you see this even in competitions wherein schools will build various RC-devices to face off in "robot battles". It's cool that they're imagining and building this stuff, and it's a lot of fun, but they are NOT robots!

rasz_pl 12y ago

I nearly got pregnant GCHQ intercepts nearly all of the intern... oh wait, this one is actually true More regulatory capture incoming. It is already illegal to fly RC models near airports, but hey A DRONE and NEAR MISS, lets label them airborne terrorists.

harryh 12y ago
That's not what regulatory capture means.

nakedrobot2 12y ago

I have heard about so many of these "airplane nearly hit a drone" scaremongering stories that I simply don't believe it anymore, period. I think it could have been a bird, or something else that simply passed by too quickly to be identified by the pilot, and they're calling it a "drone" just because they wouldn't mind getting those things banned anyway.

lafar6502 12y ago
I havent heard of any plane that nearly missed a drone
- neurotech1 12y ago
  I've only heard of two incidents. One was investigated by the NTSB and (IMO) both the pilots of the manned aircraft and the RC aircraft were partially at fault. NTSB report blamed the RC pilot. No injuries but the manned aircraft was damaged, and the RC aircraft destroyed. This occurred at low-level ( < 50 ft) over the runway. The second was that the small military UAV was blown off course due to changing winds, while a jet was doing a ground power run. The RC aircraft crashed short, with some debris hitting the aircraft wing. UAV operations were authorized, although the Tower controller and Ground (Movement) controller didn't foresee the hazard.

kartikkumar 12y ago

This is an interesting issue to me moving forward. Regardless of whether this was a "real" near miss or not, the fact of the matter is that drones/UAVs/whatever-you-call-them are going to be a much more pervasive part out our reality in the near future. Should we be regulating their use? What should the legal framework be? Should you be required to have a license with proven flying hours, much like required to become a pilot? Should the CAA, FAA and other such bodies hold complete jurisdiction? Or should it fall under the purview of a dedicated organ? I think from a technology perspective this is going to be very interesting. I'm starting to work on proximity operations in space, specifically designing robust Guidance, Navigation & Control (GNC) systems to ensure safe and effective operations. I just got off the phone with a friend who's startup is in stealth mode at the moment, looking at developing GNC algorithms for UAVs that offer real-time, autonomous operations with collision avoidance etc. in the absence of GPS. Going to be fascinating to see how the technology in this space develops. EDIT: Fixed typos

keeperofdakeys 12y ago
There is already laws regarding RC planes, and if this article is to be believed, they were already broken for this UAV. The rules are much tighter within a few kilometres of airports, where maximum height is much lower to allow for planes on approach or taking off. It's just a pity that most operators are not aware of these laws, and may cause a larger amount of regulation for the area.
jschwartzi 12y ago
Insofar as the FAA has jurisdiction over civilian airspace, I think that UAVs which are operating within that airspace must be subject to the same rules and regulations as manned aircraft, or there will be an accident. Just because it's unmanned doesn't mean that the Pauli Exclusion Principle doesn't apply to it.
- xxxyy 12y ago
  Can confirm this with respect to Polish aviation law. Flying a drone, or just any other aircraft - manned or unmanned - in a controlled space without prior authorization is a criminal offense. There is no question about it. Heathrow CTR/TMA is obviously a controlled airspace. The law in the rest of the EU should be similar, as we are all governed by EASA.