4 ms·

There is only a shortage of cheap / entry level tech workers. There are plenty of experienced and over-qualified tech workers, but most short-sighted employers

There is only a shortage of cheap / entry level tech workers. There are plenty of experienced and over-qualified tech workers, but most short-sighted employers don't value older employees.

smikhanov 12y ago
Correct. I'll steal someone else's comment (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7761424 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7761424) that illustrates this and corresponds to the OP's experience: Junior programmer (22): makes $80-100k, 120k in the Bay Area. Easily gets jobs. Senior programmer (28): 5-10 times as valuable as the junior. Makes $120-140k, possibly 150k. Serious stock options possible with the right company. Three- month job searches. Expert programmer (37): 3-5 times as valuable as the senior, so 15-50 times as valuable as the junior. Makes $150-200k. Leaves the Bay Area/NYC because he can't afford to raise kids there. Has a defined specialty. Job searches take 6-8 months because he's overqualified for everything but high-level positions, and those in his specialty number in the single-digits nationally. Master programmer (45): TO;DH. This industry pays well at the entry-level (if you went to a reputable college, live in the right city, know where to look and how to play the game) but doesn't have a clue when it comes to rewarding excellence. Getting better tends to backfire when this industry (being run by dumbass MBA types) continues to insist on structuring itself like a pyramid. The entry level for junior programmers is very low and their pay is incomparably higher than in any other industry -- even in finance. Beyond junior stage, it gets harder and harder. If you want to progress further on the career ladder, you have to aim to be like Chris Lattner, like Brian Goetz, like Guido van Rossum.
- snewman 12y ago
  (47 year old technical founder here; about to plug my startup so feel free to skip) Maybe this is true in general but it's not true everywhere. We're looking for a few great engineers, are happy to pay what they're worth, and understand the value of experience -- where experience means "every year I get better at writing code", not "now I'm an architect and don't have to write code". If you or anyone you know is interested, check us out at scalyr.com. Small team, cool tech (e.g. [1]). We are early stage so equity is a significant portion of compensation, but we can pay a significant cash wage as well, and we have 1.5+ years of runway. [1] http://blog.scalyr.com/2014/05/searching-20-gbsec-systems-engineering-before-algorithms/ http://blog.scalyr.com/2014/05/searching-20-gbsec-systems-en...
  - MichaelCrawford 12y ago
    I'd love to work for you, and hope to work for someone like you, but I don't want to relocate as I moved to Vancouver so I could look after my elderly mother and her sister, as well as to be closer to my own sister. However, if you're willing to tell me where you're located, I'd be happy to link your site from here: http://www.warplife.com/jobs/computer/united-states/california/ http://www.warplife.com/jobs/computer/united-states/californ... The "San Francisco Peninsula" could be San Mateo county, or the northern part of Santa Clara county. When I possibly can, I link each employer from a specific city's page. The above link goes to an Apache index page, as I have not yet provided an index.html for it. Here's my page for Seattle: http://www.warplife.com/jobs/computer/united-states/washington/king/seattle/ http://www.warplife.com/jobs/computer/united-states/washingt... If you know anyone that has the same outlook on life as you do, that is in our near Portland, Oregon or Vancouver, Washington, I'd really like to hear about it.
- MichaelCrawford 12y ago
  It is very common that a post advertising for a "Senior Software Engineer" requires 5 years experience, maybe 7. I myself have 27 years experience working full-time, several full-time summer jobs, and part-time jobs while I was in school before that. I wrote my first program in 1976. Only once in my entire life have I seen a post that asked for coders with 15 years experience. I find it odd that this only happens, to the best of my knowledge, in the software and entertainment industries. I don't think it's the case for electrical engineers, for example. Would you want to hire a 22 year old surgeon? If you were falsely accused of murder, would you trust a 22 year old attorney to clear your good name? Help Me Out Here, I'm Begging You.

There is only a shortage of cheap / entry level tech workers. There are plenty of experienced and over-qualified tech workers, but most short-sighted employers don't value older employees.

smikhanov 12y ago

Correct. I'll steal someone else's comment (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7761424 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7761424) that illustrates this and corresponds to the OP's experience: Junior programmer (22): makes $80-100k, 120k in the Bay Area. Easily gets jobs. Senior programmer (28): 5-10 times as valuable as the junior. Makes $120-140k, possibly 150k. Serious stock options possible with the right company. Three- month job searches. Expert programmer (37): 3-5 times as valuable as the senior, so 15-50 times as valuable as the junior. Makes $150-200k. Leaves the Bay Area/NYC because he can't afford to raise kids there. Has a defined specialty. Job searches take 6-8 months because he's overqualified for everything but high-level positions, and those in his specialty number in the single-digits nationally. Master programmer (45): TO;DH. This industry pays well at the entry-level (if you went to a reputable college, live in the right city, know where to look and how to play the game) but doesn't have a clue when it comes to rewarding excellence. Getting better tends to backfire when this industry (being run by dumbass MBA types) continues to insist on structuring itself like a pyramid. The entry level for junior programmers is very low and their pay is incomparably higher than in any other industry -- even in finance. Beyond junior stage, it gets harder and harder. If you want to progress further on the career ladder, you have to aim to be like Chris Lattner, like Brian Goetz, like Guido van Rossum.

snewman 12y ago
(47 year old technical founder here; about to plug my startup so feel free to skip) Maybe this is true in general but it's not true everywhere. We're looking for a few great engineers, are happy to pay what they're worth, and understand the value of experience -- where experience means "every year I get better at writing code", not "now I'm an architect and don't have to write code". If you or anyone you know is interested, check us out at scalyr.com. Small team, cool tech (e.g. [1]). We are early stage so equity is a significant portion of compensation, but we can pay a significant cash wage as well, and we have 1.5+ years of runway. [1] http://blog.scalyr.com/2014/05/searching-20-gbsec-systems-engineering-before-algorithms/ http://blog.scalyr.com/2014/05/searching-20-gbsec-systems-en...
- MichaelCrawford 12y ago
  I'd love to work for you, and hope to work for someone like you, but I don't want to relocate as I moved to Vancouver so I could look after my elderly mother and her sister, as well as to be closer to my own sister. However, if you're willing to tell me where you're located, I'd be happy to link your site from here: http://www.warplife.com/jobs/computer/united-states/california/ http://www.warplife.com/jobs/computer/united-states/californ... The "San Francisco Peninsula" could be San Mateo county, or the northern part of Santa Clara county. When I possibly can, I link each employer from a specific city's page. The above link goes to an Apache index page, as I have not yet provided an index.html for it. Here's my page for Seattle: http://www.warplife.com/jobs/computer/united-states/washington/king/seattle/ http://www.warplife.com/jobs/computer/united-states/washingt... If you know anyone that has the same outlook on life as you do, that is in our near Portland, Oregon or Vancouver, Washington, I'd really like to hear about it.
MichaelCrawford 12y ago
It is very common that a post advertising for a "Senior Software Engineer" requires 5 years experience, maybe 7. I myself have 27 years experience working full-time, several full-time summer jobs, and part-time jobs while I was in school before that. I wrote my first program in 1976. Only once in my entire life have I seen a post that asked for coders with 15 years experience. I find it odd that this only happens, to the best of my knowledge, in the software and entertainment industries. I don't think it's the case for electrical engineers, for example. Would you want to hire a 22 year old surgeon? If you were falsely accused of murder, would you trust a 22 year old attorney to clear your good name? Help Me Out Here, I'm Begging You.