4 ms·

They may earnestly believe in it, but they cannot provide a shred of evidence that it exists and all authority that claims that it does is inevitably found to b

by nagrom 12y ago

They may earnestly believe in it, but they cannot provide a shred of evidence that it exists and all authority that claims that it does is inevitably found to be either a) mistaken or b) fraudulent. Very intelligent, otherwise rational people believe in false propositions that make them feel happy, relieved or secure all the time. Unless there's evidence, that belief is as unfounded as the belief of most people that their husband is noble, their wife is beautiful, their child is special, that they deserve what they have, etc. It's a very human, completely fine thing to believe all of these things (even necessary for a healthy life), but when you look at them rationally, you cannot suppose that they are true. An afterlife doesn't need to be proven false. There just has to be some evidence, (not even proof, just any evidence beyond 'I feel it') to make it a proposition worth considering. Until then, since so many have looked for evidence and failed to find it, the only rational view of the situation is to suppose (and behave) like it doesn't. You're made of meat, death is final, there is no do-over. Make this life count, try to bring about the change that you want to see, because there is no higher authority, there is no second chance.

igammarays 12y ago
> cannot provide a shred of evidence. Human testimony is evidence, especially if corroborated by multiple unrelated sources (i.e. countless mystics from many different backgrounds and eras, many of which are completely absolved of having a material interest). A collective conscience, i.e. the fact that practically all ancient peoples believed in God and an afterlife can be considered atleast a "shred" of evidence. I think it's wrong to say that there isn't a "shred" of evidence.
- nagrom 12y ago
  Practically all ancient people believed in nature spirits, and several disconnected tribes have worshiped the sun. The majority of ancient peoples enjoyed slavery and showed overt racism, sexism and caste systems that caused unnecessary suffering and hardship. It is said that Aristotle believed that women had fewer teeth than men. He never thought to check by counting them. If this is your standard of evidence, then your standard of evidence as a way of differentiating any objective truth is useless.
- toothbrush 12y ago
  What the sibling post says. Also, alternative explanation: we're all the same species, and all have the same mental "bug" which causes us to think it's plausible that there's a dude (obviously a dude) in the sky who knows our name. Human testimony is one of the single most fallible sources of information. I can't even remember what my doctor told me to do this morning, while that would actually run the risk of concretely improving my quality of life.
plikan13 12y ago
I have been visited by deceased relatives a few times in my dreams and for me these experiences were convincing enough to serve as evidence that death is not the end of things. Of course this is just personal, but it's good enough for me.
- nagrom 12y ago
  Without wishing to be insensitive, in my dreams, I can occasionally fly. That is absolutely not evidence that I can fly.
yason 12y ago
If you only ever look at the fraction of the universe for which we have a plausible explanation that is passing scientific criteria, you're missing out on a lot of what is part of human existence all around the globe. Science is a good tool for positive filtering (as in "hey, because of these observations I think how this works, and I think that by doing the following tests I can get some further confirmation of that") but as soon as you use it as a negative filter (as in "hey, there's no proof of it so for all practical purposes it doesn't exist, sorry"), you're just rejecting things based on a technicality.
hndissapointed 12y ago
> Very intelligent, otherwise rational people believe in false propositions that make them feel happy, relieved or secure all the time. Exactly. I too have found that many people like to have their "ears tickled". It feels like people don't want to put up with sound reason and instead believe in doctrines and beliefs that suit their own personal tastes. >An afterlife doesn't need to be proven false. There just has to be some evidence, Very true, many belief systems over the millenia have taught an afterlife scenario (commonly following a 'Good Afterlife' vs. 'Bad Afterlife' theme). This comes from many belief systems carrying the notion of a "part" of the human that carries on immortally beyond the physical body (believed to be an immortal soul by Christian groups -- interestingly, the bible carries no support of this notion). Even people who believe in this immortality notion cannot provide evidence of it's existence, yet work on the assumption that it can't be proven false. (Although, depending on your authoritative scriptures, it sometimes can be.) A political Jewish group in the days of Jesus were known for strongly believing in the Torah, but not in this immortality notion [0]. [0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sadducees#General http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sadducees#General >You're made of meat, death is final, there is no do-over. I agree. Humans cannot stop death on their own, if they were to ever have a hope of overcoming death it would have to be via some external force that was vastly more powerful and smarter than they. Many ancient belief systems attribute this power to either a God, multiple gods working in unison, or to 'The Universe' (as in: that is simply the ways thing are). In summation, it's NOT okay to say: GOD EXISTS! or GOD DOES NOT EXIST! or whatever oversimplified nonsense you can angrily yell in under 5 seconds and proceed to use as the foundation of the ideals for your entire life. A truly rational person understands this.

by nagrom 12y ago

igammarays 12y ago

> cannot provide a shred of evidence. Human testimony is evidence, especially if corroborated by multiple unrelated sources (i.e. countless mystics from many different backgrounds and eras, many of which are completely absolved of having a material interest). A collective conscience, i.e. the fact that practically all ancient peoples believed in God and an afterlife can be considered atleast a "shred" of evidence. I think it's wrong to say that there isn't a "shred" of evidence.

nagrom 12y ago
Practically all ancient people believed in nature spirits, and several disconnected tribes have worshiped the sun. The majority of ancient peoples enjoyed slavery and showed overt racism, sexism and caste systems that caused unnecessary suffering and hardship. It is said that Aristotle believed that women had fewer teeth than men. He never thought to check by counting them. If this is your standard of evidence, then your standard of evidence as a way of differentiating any objective truth is useless.
toothbrush 12y ago
What the sibling post says. Also, alternative explanation: we're all the same species, and all have the same mental "bug" which causes us to think it's plausible that there's a dude (obviously a dude) in the sky who knows our name. Human testimony is one of the single most fallible sources of information. I can't even remember what my doctor told me to do this morning, while that would actually run the risk of concretely improving my quality of life.

plikan13 12y ago

I have been visited by deceased relatives a few times in my dreams and for me these experiences were convincing enough to serve as evidence that death is not the end of things. Of course this is just personal, but it's good enough for me.

nagrom 12y ago
Without wishing to be insensitive, in my dreams, I can occasionally fly. That is absolutely not evidence that I can fly.

yason 12y ago

If you only ever look at the fraction of the universe for which we have a plausible explanation that is passing scientific criteria, you're missing out on a lot of what is part of human existence all around the globe. Science is a good tool for positive filtering (as in "hey, because of these observations I think how this works, and I think that by doing the following tests I can get some further confirmation of that") but as soon as you use it as a negative filter (as in "hey, there's no proof of it so for all practical purposes it doesn't exist, sorry"), you're just rejecting things based on a technicality.

hndissapointed 12y ago

> Very intelligent, otherwise rational people believe in false propositions that make them feel happy, relieved or secure all the time. Exactly. I too have found that many people like to have their "ears tickled". It feels like people don't want to put up with sound reason and instead believe in doctrines and beliefs that suit their own personal tastes. >An afterlife doesn't need to be proven false. There just has to be some evidence, Very true, many belief systems over the millenia have taught an afterlife scenario (commonly following a 'Good Afterlife' vs. 'Bad Afterlife' theme). This comes from many belief systems carrying the notion of a "part" of the human that carries on immortally beyond the physical body (believed to be an immortal soul by Christian groups -- interestingly, the bible carries no support of this notion). Even people who believe in this immortality notion cannot provide evidence of it's existence, yet work on the assumption that it can't be proven false. (Although, depending on your authoritative scriptures, it sometimes can be.) A political Jewish group in the days of Jesus were known for strongly believing in the Torah, but not in this immortality notion [0]. [0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sadducees#General http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sadducees#General >You're made of meat, death is final, there is no do-over. I agree. Humans cannot stop death on their own, if they were to ever have a hope of overcoming death it would have to be via some external force that was vastly more powerful and smarter than they. Many ancient belief systems attribute this power to either a God, multiple gods working in unison, or to 'The Universe' (as in: that is simply the ways thing are). In summation, it's NOT okay to say: GOD EXISTS! or GOD DOES NOT EXIST! or whatever oversimplified nonsense you can angrily yell in under 5 seconds and proceed to use as the foundation of the ideals for your entire life. A truly rational person understands this.