6 ms·

As far as I'm concerned, that's a perfect example of a story unsuitable for HN. There's nothing there to satisfy anyone's intellectual curiosity. It's just a vo

by jsnell 12y ago

As far as I'm concerned, that's a perfect example of a story unsuitable for HN. There's nothing there to satisfy anyone's intellectual curiosity. It's just a volatile mixture of rubbernecking, outrage, gender issues, schadenfreude over a controversial company, and having it be about a tech startup to give it just a tiny bit of supposed HN relevance. (I flagged the one copy of this I saw on the front page, and it's certainly not because of liking Uber).

plinkplonk 12y ago
I hope you are consistent in flagging every 'gender issue' (women in tech, say) and 'controversial company'(say Apple or Google) story on HN. Yes, sarcasm. EDIT: gender issues and 'controversial company' discussions on HN happen all the time. Maybe they shouldn't, and maybe that is a good focus to have. As long as such a policy is consistently enforced.
- IkmoIkmo 12y ago
  edit- sorry ignore this.
cmdlinerambo 12y ago
I think it says something to ux.
baddox 12y ago
I just reread the HN guidelines (it had been a while), and was surprised that flagging stories is apparently intended to be used more liberally than I had thought. The relevant sentence is: If you think something is spam or offtopic, flag it by going to its page and clicking on the "flag" link. I had been considering story flagging to be used for abuses like blatant spam or flaming, but not merely to express one's personal judgement of whether something is on-topic ("anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity"). Obviously, different people's intellectual curiosities are satisfied by different things, and I had thought that story upvoting was the means to express that judgement.
- rgbrenner 12y ago
  But they've also said (IIRC) that if you flag inappropriately, they may remove your flag privs. So if you flag, but they disagree....
  - baddox 12y ago
    I have heard that rumor as well. Interestingly, HN's description of story flagging sounds nearly identical to Reddit's (informal) description of downvoting (presumably referring to both stories and comments): If you think something contributes to conversation, upvote it. If you think it does not contribute to the subreddit it is posted in or is off-topic in a particular community, downvote it. Of course, HN doesn't have downvoting for stories (unless that's a feature I have yet to unlock), while reddit has downvoting as well as reporting (with options for spam, vote manipulation, personal information, sexualizing minors, breaking reddit, and other). I had been operating under the assumption that HN flagging was analogous to reddit reporting, but it would appear that HN flagging is intended to be more analogous to reddit downvoting. http://www.reddit.com/wiki/reddiquette http://www.reddit.com/wiki/reddiquette
IkmoIkmo 12y ago
I was going to post the following (below -----), but I read the stories and they mainly focus on the signup process for Uber. While I still mostly feel like my original post, it is troublesome to hear that Uber employs people with no background check or verification into a job which, if you think about it, entails a trust-relationship not unlike that of a doctor or cleaning lady/man: someone in in an intimate setting who you entrust to care for you. For a doctor it's obvious, a cleaner enters your home, where you trust they don't steal sneakily or assault you. And for a taxi driver who drives you home at night, you expect when you hire through a large company that you're in the hands of a professional you can trust. Not a person who went through background checks/verification/training as much as if you took a random stranger and put them in a car. So to that extent I'd say Uber has a lot of work to do in its signup process. But beyond that, it still feels like an incident that doesn't justify a post on HN. I wonder what the process is like for regular taxi companies in India and if it's much different. Did you guys remember the Polish woman who was raped earlier this year in a non-uber Indian taxi? ------ original post below ------- As horrible as this is, it's a non-story for me. That's not to say the rape isn't horrible. But we need relevance, we can't just report any horrible fact. About 17k children die each day, it doesn't make sense to fill HN with that daily unless there is some direct relevance. If we didn't have a 'relevance filter', I nor anyone else would visit this particular community anymore. Now what's the relevance here? Uber? And...? Imagine an employee from Microsoft raped someone (pretty much 100% guaranteed one of them did in the past decades). Should that be a story we talk about on HN, just because it's bad and because it's a tech company and no other reason? Of course not. So why should it be a story that a non-employee freelance driver rapes someone in a country of over 1 billion people? Look if this story had a sociological context about gender relations in India that was interesting for HN, sure. I'd love to read about that. My girlfriend was just in India this summer for social work and we chat about this every now and then. If it was a story about gender-violent policies at Uber, sure, that'd be interesting. If this was a story about how Uber attracts disproportionately higher rates of criminal drivers, sure. But there's none of that. So I don't see the relevance, and without any kind of trend, evidence of bad policies or whatever, it's just a single incident. Shit happens, and without context this is a story that smears a company. I'm no fan of Uber, but there's a lot better things to focus on IF this was an incident. Anyway I'd be happy to hear otherwise, I could totally be missing something.
ryanhuff 12y ago
It's entirely relevant. First, it's related to Uber's international expansion, which I believed was covered on HN very recently. That story was pretty weak of "intellectual curiosity". This kind of story could doom them in certain markets. It also relates to how Uber's business practice of keeping drivers at arms length when compared to taxis may impact the quality of the experience (this is a crazy extreme example).
- icebraining 12y ago
  It also relates to how Uber's business practice of keeping drivers at arms length when compared to taxis may impact the quality of the experience (this is a crazy extreme example). I don't see why, do you think taxi drivers don't rape their customers? Just last month a taxi driver raped, robbed and threw two people over a cliff[1]. This story shows that Uber hires dangerous people, but not that they're any worse than taxis. I dislike Uber businesses practices, and I don't use the service, but this particular story is just tabloid content. [1] http://m.ibnlive.com/news/taxi-driver-rapes-delhibased-woman-throws-her-and-friend-off-a-cliff-near-dehradun/512133-3-244.html http://m.ibnlive.com/news/taxi-driver-rapes-delhibased-woman...
  - ryanhuff 12y ago
    Now that Uber has been banned in India, I think the story has turned to be very relevant.
abalone 12y ago
Let's see... Having your personal info recorded because of a startup's security flaw is 100% suitable content for HN, but getting raped because of a startup's security flaw is "rubbernecking" a "gender issue". People like you should be banned from banning HN stories.
Afforess 12y ago
I can't tell whether I should agree with you, because I rationally have similar conclusions, or disagree because it's possible you are simply a planted post meant to derail discussion. Mission accomplished either way, I guess.
sriram_sun 12y ago
Here is a link to the discussion on HN about a renter's home on AirBnB getting trashed. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2813956 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2813956 I don't see anyone raising any of the issues you've pointed out here. Perhaps the rules of moderation have changed. Would the AirBnB story be judged similarly if posted today? > ... volatile mixture of rubbernecking and outrage ... That doesn't even make sense. Gender issues and schadenfreude, I at least understand what you mean. There might be a rush to judgement here. My worry here is that subverting established process is all well and good... until someone gets raped. So I'll be watching to see if Uber's background check process failed. If so why?

by jsnell 12y ago

plinkplonk 12y ago

I hope you are consistent in flagging every 'gender issue' (women in tech, say) and 'controversial company'(say Apple or Google) story on HN. Yes, sarcasm. EDIT: gender issues and 'controversial company' discussions on HN happen all the time. Maybe they shouldn't, and maybe that is a good focus to have. As long as such a policy is consistently enforced.

IkmoIkmo 12y ago
edit- sorry ignore this.

cmdlinerambo 12y ago

I think it says something to ux.

baddox 12y ago

I just reread the HN guidelines (it had been a while), and was surprised that flagging stories is apparently intended to be used more liberally than I had thought. The relevant sentence is: If you think something is spam or offtopic, flag it by going to its page and clicking on the "flag" link. I had been considering story flagging to be used for abuses like blatant spam or flaming, but not merely to express one's personal judgement of whether something is on-topic ("anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity"). Obviously, different people's intellectual curiosities are satisfied by different things, and I had thought that story upvoting was the means to express that judgement.

rgbrenner 12y ago
But they've also said (IIRC) that if you flag inappropriately, they may remove your flag privs. So if you flag, but they disagree....
- baddox 12y ago
  I have heard that rumor as well. Interestingly, HN's description of story flagging sounds nearly identical to Reddit's (informal) description of downvoting (presumably referring to both stories and comments): If you think something contributes to conversation, upvote it. If you think it does not contribute to the subreddit it is posted in or is off-topic in a particular community, downvote it. Of course, HN doesn't have downvoting for stories (unless that's a feature I have yet to unlock), while reddit has downvoting as well as reporting (with options for spam, vote manipulation, personal information, sexualizing minors, breaking reddit, and other). I had been operating under the assumption that HN flagging was analogous to reddit reporting, but it would appear that HN flagging is intended to be more analogous to reddit downvoting. http://www.reddit.com/wiki/reddiquette http://www.reddit.com/wiki/reddiquette

IkmoIkmo 12y ago

I was going to post the following (below -----), but I read the stories and they mainly focus on the signup process for Uber. While I still mostly feel like my original post, it is troublesome to hear that Uber employs people with no background check or verification into a job which, if you think about it, entails a trust-relationship not unlike that of a doctor or cleaning lady/man: someone in in an intimate setting who you entrust to care for you. For a doctor it's obvious, a cleaner enters your home, where you trust they don't steal sneakily or assault you. And for a taxi driver who drives you home at night, you expect when you hire through a large company that you're in the hands of a professional you can trust. Not a person who went through background checks/verification/training as much as if you took a random stranger and put them in a car. So to that extent I'd say Uber has a lot of work to do in its signup process. But beyond that, it still feels like an incident that doesn't justify a post on HN. I wonder what the process is like for regular taxi companies in India and if it's much different. Did you guys remember the Polish woman who was raped earlier this year in a non-uber Indian taxi? ------ original post below ------- As horrible as this is, it's a non-story for me. That's not to say the rape isn't horrible. But we need relevance, we can't just report any horrible fact. About 17k children die each day, it doesn't make sense to fill HN with that daily unless there is some direct relevance. If we didn't have a 'relevance filter', I nor anyone else would visit this particular community anymore. Now what's the relevance here? Uber? And...? Imagine an employee from Microsoft raped someone (pretty much 100% guaranteed one of them did in the past decades). Should that be a story we talk about on HN, just because it's bad and because it's a tech company and no other reason? Of course not. So why should it be a story that a non-employee freelance driver rapes someone in a country of over 1 billion people? Look if this story had a sociological context about gender relations in India that was interesting for HN, sure. I'd love to read about that. My girlfriend was just in India this summer for social work and we chat about this every now and then. If it was a story about gender-violent policies at Uber, sure, that'd be interesting. If this was a story about how Uber attracts disproportionately higher rates of criminal drivers, sure. But there's none of that. So I don't see the relevance, and without any kind of trend, evidence of bad policies or whatever, it's just a single incident. Shit happens, and without context this is a story that smears a company. I'm no fan of Uber, but there's a lot better things to focus on IF this was an incident. Anyway I'd be happy to hear otherwise, I could totally be missing something.

ryanhuff 12y ago

It's entirely relevant. First, it's related to Uber's international expansion, which I believed was covered on HN very recently. That story was pretty weak of "intellectual curiosity". This kind of story could doom them in certain markets. It also relates to how Uber's business practice of keeping drivers at arms length when compared to taxis may impact the quality of the experience (this is a crazy extreme example).

icebraining 12y ago
It also relates to how Uber's business practice of keeping drivers at arms length when compared to taxis may impact the quality of the experience (this is a crazy extreme example). I don't see why, do you think taxi drivers don't rape their customers? Just last month a taxi driver raped, robbed and threw two people over a cliff[1]. This story shows that Uber hires dangerous people, but not that they're any worse than taxis. I dislike Uber businesses practices, and I don't use the service, but this particular story is just tabloid content. [1] http://m.ibnlive.com/news/taxi-driver-rapes-delhibased-woman-throws-her-and-friend-off-a-cliff-near-dehradun/512133-3-244.html http://m.ibnlive.com/news/taxi-driver-rapes-delhibased-woman...
- ryanhuff 12y ago
  Now that Uber has been banned in India, I think the story has turned to be very relevant.

abalone 12y ago

Let's see... Having your personal info recorded because of a startup's security flaw is 100% suitable content for HN, but getting raped because of a startup's security flaw is "rubbernecking" a "gender issue". People like you should be banned from banning HN stories.

Afforess 12y ago

I can't tell whether I should agree with you, because I rationally have similar conclusions, or disagree because it's possible you are simply a planted post meant to derail discussion. Mission accomplished either way, I guess.

sriram_sun 12y ago

Here is a link to the discussion on HN about a renter's home on AirBnB getting trashed. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2813956 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2813956 I don't see anyone raising any of the issues you've pointed out here. Perhaps the rules of moderation have changed. Would the AirBnB story be judged similarly if posted today? > ... volatile mixture of rubbernecking and outrage ... That doesn't even make sense. Gender issues and schadenfreude, I at least understand what you mean. There might be a rush to judgement here. My worry here is that subverting established process is all well and good... until someone gets raped. So I'll be watching to see if Uber's background check process failed. If so why?