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The International Competition Where Master Lock-Pickers Do Battle

36 points by nsajko 12y ago

jmartinpetersen 12y ago
I always found lock picking fascinating, but I've never gotten around to actually trying. I'm guessing I also sleep better at night in ignorance. Silly meta question: the story was published in 2005 but appears online now. Does that merit a (2005) in the title?
- kbenson 12y ago
  Similarly, I've also always been fascinated by lock picking but have never tried, but long ago I tied physical security and network security together in my mind, and it's been a very long time since I felt any network was truly secure. It's fairly accepted (IMHO) that network security doesn't make it so people can't access your networks/systems, just that it puts enough hurdles in place that it deters the unmotivated and enough detection in place so you get notified shortly after the intrusion, hopefully before damage can be done. Walls, doors, locks and alarms serve the same purpose for physical security. You'll want more or less of each depending on your circumstances. P.S. The other end of the spectrum applies as well, where people have undo faith that their networks are secure, and looking at the reality of it would probably not help them sleep any better.
Someone 12y ago
2014 version was in September. See https://toool.nl/LockCon https://toool.nl/LockCon and https://blackbag.toool.nl/?p=2485 https://blackbag.toool.nl/?p=2485 for a report.
jjoonathan 12y ago
Quick piece of advice for anyone looking to get started: DO NOT TRAIN USING PAPERCLIPS. The first thing you should do is buy yourself a real set of picks. When the MIT lockpicking guide started me down this road I thought "I'll teach myself to pick using paperclips and then I'll be REALLY GOOD when I get to the point of using actual picks." Turns out that I'm not alone; most people I've encountered "in the wild" with a casual interest in picking thought exactly the same thing. None of us were able to make significant progress towards reliably picking anything tougher than a wafer lock using paperclips. I don't know anyone who managed to "get good" using paperclips; everyone I know who did eventually "get good" did so by learning using proper tools and then moving to paperclips (if that's something they were interested in). In hindsight, it's obvious why this is the case: learning to pick requires learning to understand and interpret subtle and unfamiliar kinds of mechanical feedback. There's enough "noise" to make this a difficult process even if you do have proper tools. Using paperclips adds a few more layers of noise (paperclips bend, they have weird shapes with bumps in them, etc) and the simultaneous combination of paperclip "noise" with the usual mechanical "noise" is much more difficult to decipher than the sum of the difficulty that you would get from deciphering each noise source individually and then synthesizing that knowledge (i.e. what you would encounter if you trained yourself on proper picks and then moved to paperclips). Also: there aren't many hobbies/skills that you can effectively practice while watching TV, but picking is one of them. If TV is already a sunk cost, you get a bunch of picking practice time "for free" :)
- thret 12y ago
  How do you buy a real set without a license, aren't they illegal almost everywhere? OTOH you can make a decent set from scratch. I've always wanted a professional set though.
  - evilduck 12y ago
    DX.com will mail them to you no questions asked. Ive ordered several sets for myself and as gifts. They aren't super illegal, but they are classified as burglars tools in most places (misdemeanors). I'm not a lawyer nor is this legal advice, but crowbars can be burglars tools too, most things are about context. Unless you get caught breaking into something while in possession of lockpicks, you probably won't have a problem in any other situation (plus many cops are largely ignorant of odd niche laws like these, since most burglaries are more of the opportunistic smash and grab type). Also, from the hobbyist at-home perspective the chance of encountering any legal problem is almost nil.
    - thret 12y ago
      Done, thank you. Shipping is even free to Australia.
  - jodrellblank 12y ago
    See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lock_picking#Legal_status http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lock_picking#Legal_status e.g. in the UK you can (apparently) buy and own them, but carrying them around in public counts as proof that you were intending to commit burglary, no other evidence needed.

36 points by nsajko 12y ago

I always found lock picking fascinating, but I've never gotten around to actually trying. I'm guessing I also sleep better at night in ignorance. Silly meta question: the story was published in 2005 but appears online now. Does that merit a (2005) in the title?

kbenson 12y ago
Similarly, I've also always been fascinated by lock picking but have never tried, but long ago I tied physical security and network security together in my mind, and it's been a very long time since I felt any network was truly secure. It's fairly accepted (IMHO) that network security doesn't make it so people can't access your networks/systems, just that it puts enough hurdles in place that it deters the unmotivated and enough detection in place so you get notified shortly after the intrusion, hopefully before damage can be done. Walls, doors, locks and alarms serve the same purpose for physical security. You'll want more or less of each depending on your circumstances. P.S. The other end of the spectrum applies as well, where people have undo faith that their networks are secure, and looking at the reality of it would probably not help them sleep any better.

Someone 12y ago

2014 version was in September. See https://toool.nl/LockCon https://toool.nl/LockCon and https://blackbag.toool.nl/?p=2485 https://blackbag.toool.nl/?p=2485 for a report.

jjoonathan 12y ago

Quick piece of advice for anyone looking to get started: DO NOT TRAIN USING PAPERCLIPS. The first thing you should do is buy yourself a real set of picks. When the MIT lockpicking guide started me down this road I thought "I'll teach myself to pick using paperclips and then I'll be REALLY GOOD when I get to the point of using actual picks." Turns out that I'm not alone; most people I've encountered "in the wild" with a casual interest in picking thought exactly the same thing. None of us were able to make significant progress towards reliably picking anything tougher than a wafer lock using paperclips. I don't know anyone who managed to "get good" using paperclips; everyone I know who did eventually "get good" did so by learning using proper tools and then moving to paperclips (if that's something they were interested in). In hindsight, it's obvious why this is the case: learning to pick requires learning to understand and interpret subtle and unfamiliar kinds of mechanical feedback. There's enough "noise" to make this a difficult process even if you do have proper tools. Using paperclips adds a few more layers of noise (paperclips bend, they have weird shapes with bumps in them, etc) and the simultaneous combination of paperclip "noise" with the usual mechanical "noise" is much more difficult to decipher than the sum of the difficulty that you would get from deciphering each noise source individually and then synthesizing that knowledge (i.e. what you would encounter if you trained yourself on proper picks and then moved to paperclips). Also: there aren't many hobbies/skills that you can effectively practice while watching TV, but picking is one of them. If TV is already a sunk cost, you get a bunch of picking practice time "for free" :)

thret 12y ago
How do you buy a real set without a license, aren't they illegal almost everywhere? OTOH you can make a decent set from scratch. I've always wanted a professional set though.
- evilduck 12y ago
  DX.com will mail them to you no questions asked. Ive ordered several sets for myself and as gifts. They aren't super illegal, but they are classified as burglars tools in most places (misdemeanors). I'm not a lawyer nor is this legal advice, but crowbars can be burglars tools too, most things are about context. Unless you get caught breaking into something while in possession of lockpicks, you probably won't have a problem in any other situation (plus many cops are largely ignorant of odd niche laws like these, since most burglaries are more of the opportunistic smash and grab type). Also, from the hobbyist at-home perspective the chance of encountering any legal problem is almost nil.
  - thret 12y ago
    Done, thank you. Shipping is even free to Australia.
- jodrellblank 12y ago
  See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lock_picking#Legal_status http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lock_picking#Legal_status e.g. in the UK you can (apparently) buy and own them, but carrying them around in public counts as proof that you were intending to commit burglary, no other evidence needed.