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The "fine" thing would be to let Lena use photographs of herself in her own work. The problem is that women in science cannot read a paper on image processing

by j2kun 12y ago

The "fine" thing would be to let Lena use photographs of herself in her own work. The problem is that women in science cannot read a paper on image processing without being reminded that it's a boy's club.

CamperBob2 12y ago
The problem is that women in science cannot read a paper on image processing without being reminded that it's a boy's club. I find this attitude far more patronizing than any conceivable choice of test imagery in a graphics research project. Suggest reading this before posting anything else about the delicate sensibilities of "women in science": http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/07/magazine/my-great-great-aunt-discovered-francium-and-it-killed-her.html?_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/07/magazine/my-great-great-au... Do you think any of those women would have spared a half-second's thought about this issue? Somehow, I don't think so. I think they were too busy doing science.
- j2kun 12y ago
  I'm sure they do, because I can point to them speaking up about it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenna#Controversy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenna#Controversy I'm not saying all women are crippled by it, because they have to deal with such nonsense while walking down the street every day. But can't we as scientists strive to improve the status quo?
  - CamperBob2 12y ago
    (Shrug) I can point to outraged people "speaking up" about everything from global warming to Jar-Jar Binks. It doesn't prove much, except that some people enjoy a good bout of outrage. The scientists in the article I linked, on the other hand, aren't speaking up about anything, because they're all dead.
    - j2kun 12y ago
      You're implying that because the women you picked didn't speak up and just did their work, that somehow that is the model all women should follow (because Science, apparently). Yet you provide no evidence that they were not affected by attitudes toward women. Just because they did not speak up does not imply there were no negative effects of contemporary attitudes toward women. On the other hand, I have evidence that researchers are affected by it.
      - CamperBob2 12y ago
        Yet you provide no evidence that they were not affected by attitudes toward women. The New York Times Magazine article is pretty long, it'll take you a few minutes to read it. I'll wait. Short version: they suffered real discrimination, which you've diminished by comparing it to the use of Lenna.jpg in a graphics project.
        j2kun 12y ago
        Fine, I didn't read it. What is your point? That just because something is worse for one person that we should ignore problems affecting another? That someone else has suffered in the past is not a reason to give up improving the status quo today.

by j2kun 12y ago

CamperBob2 12y ago

The problem is that women in science cannot read a paper on image processing without being reminded that it's a boy's club. I find this attitude far more patronizing than any conceivable choice of test imagery in a graphics research project. Suggest reading this before posting anything else about the delicate sensibilities of "women in science": http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/07/magazine/my-great-great-aunt-discovered-francium-and-it-killed-her.html?_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/07/magazine/my-great-great-au... Do you think any of those women would have spared a half-second's thought about this issue? Somehow, I don't think so. I think they were too busy doing science.

j2kun 12y ago
I'm sure they do, because I can point to them speaking up about it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenna#Controversy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenna#Controversy I'm not saying all women are crippled by it, because they have to deal with such nonsense while walking down the street every day. But can't we as scientists strive to improve the status quo?
- CamperBob2 12y ago
  (Shrug) I can point to outraged people "speaking up" about everything from global warming to Jar-Jar Binks. It doesn't prove much, except that some people enjoy a good bout of outrage. The scientists in the article I linked, on the other hand, aren't speaking up about anything, because they're all dead.
  - j2kun 12y ago
    You're implying that because the women you picked didn't speak up and just did their work, that somehow that is the model all women should follow (because Science, apparently). Yet you provide no evidence that they were not affected by attitudes toward women. Just because they did not speak up does not imply there were no negative effects of contemporary attitudes toward women. On the other hand, I have evidence that researchers are affected by it.
    - CamperBob2 12y ago
      Yet you provide no evidence that they were not affected by attitudes toward women. The New York Times Magazine article is pretty long, it'll take you a few minutes to read it. I'll wait. Short version: they suffered real discrimination, which you've diminished by comparing it to the use of Lenna.jpg in a graphics project.
      - j2kun 12y ago
        Fine, I didn't read it. What is your point? That just because something is worse for one person that we should ignore problems affecting another? That someone else has suffered in the past is not a reason to give up improving the status quo today.