5 ms·

"Most devices already include or will include hardware HEVC support, so we suggest to use it if patents are an issue." I don't know if that suggestion makes mu

by reidrac 12y ago

"Most devices already include or will include hardware HEVC support, so we suggest to use it if patents are an issue." I don't know if that suggestion makes much sense, but you missed it in your quote.

TD-Linux 12y ago
I can't imagine ever wanting to spin up a hardware HEVC decoder context every time I want to render an image. That would enormously slow down display of a web page with this format. Edit: decoder, not encoder
- dedward 12y ago
  That would be decoding, not encoding.
sp332 12y ago
What kinds of devices have hardware HEVC acceleration? Phones, PC graphics cards, Blu-ray players?
- WhitneyLand 12y ago
  One of Samsung's cameras, iPhone 6 uses it for FaceTime, various 4k TV's.
- wmf 12y ago
  None of them today, but all of them in a few years.
- Marat_Dukhan 12y ago
  nVidia GPUs with GM2xx chips (currently GeForce 900 Series)
pgeorgi 12y ago
Unless they changed their ways since h.264, it's probably a non-commercial license, even for tools or devices that suggest otherwise - like Final Cut Pro (http://bemasc.net/wordpress/2010/02/02/no-you-cant-do-that-with-h264/ http://bemasc.net/wordpress/2010/02/02/no-you-cant-do-that-w...)
- Daiz 12y ago
  You can actually use HEVC for your content for free, even commercially. Royalties only get involved when distributing encoders & decoders. See page 7 here http://www.mpegla.com/main/programs/HEVC/Documents/HEVCweb.pdf http://www.mpegla.com/main/programs/HEVC/Documents/HEVCweb.p...
  - espadrine 12y ago
    Then surely you have an issue, don't you, if you bundle the decoder in JS?
    - Daiz 12y ago
      Hmm, that does make me wonder, actually - as far as I know, you can freely distribute source code for encoders & decoders without having to pay any royalties. Binaries / compiled versions are where the royalties come in. And technically, JS code is source code that gets compiled by the browser... so I'm not actually sure where it falls in all this.
      - wmf 12y ago
        I don't think source code is exempt from patents per se. I think the rule is more like some point in the supply chain has to have a license. It's common to distribute a chip or software library with no license with the assumption that the final product will get a license. But if the source code is the final product it needs a license. IANAL.
  - pgeorgi 12y ago
    Yes, the content - that means unlike h.264 licensing there's no separate license for streaming (page 7 of http://www.mpegla.com/main/programs/avc/Documents/avcweb.pdf http://www.mpegla.com/main/programs/avc/Documents/avcweb.pdf) But with h.264, _codec_ licensing is for non-commercial (and internal business) use only (page 8). There's no clear statement that HEVC licensing is for any and all purposes, and their use of the term "End user" in MPEG-LA's (non-binding) public material across patent pools is quite inconsistent, so it may mean only non-commercial users. Given that it's MPEG-LA that we're talking about here, and their history, I assume there will be nasty surprises unless there's hard evidence that there aren't.
higherpurpose 12y ago
"Most" is a huge overestimation. I don't think Haswell supports HEVC encoding. Qualcomm will only support it next year with the high-end Snapdragon 810, and Apple only recently supported it in the latest iOS devices. But the vast majority of people right now don't have support for HEVC encoding and won't have for 5+ years.

by reidrac 12y ago

TD-Linux 12y ago

I can't imagine ever wanting to spin up a hardware HEVC decoder context every time I want to render an image. That would enormously slow down display of a web page with this format. Edit: decoder, not encoder

dedward 12y ago
That would be decoding, not encoding.

sp332 12y ago

What kinds of devices have hardware HEVC acceleration? Phones, PC graphics cards, Blu-ray players?

WhitneyLand 12y ago
One of Samsung's cameras, iPhone 6 uses it for FaceTime, various 4k TV's.
wmf 12y ago
None of them today, but all of them in a few years.
Marat_Dukhan 12y ago
nVidia GPUs with GM2xx chips (currently GeForce 900 Series)

pgeorgi 12y ago

Unless they changed their ways since h.264, it's probably a non-commercial license, even for tools or devices that suggest otherwise - like Final Cut Pro (http://bemasc.net/wordpress/2010/02/02/no-you-cant-do-that-with-h264/ http://bemasc.net/wordpress/2010/02/02/no-you-cant-do-that-w...)

Daiz 12y ago
You can actually use HEVC for your content for free, even commercially. Royalties only get involved when distributing encoders & decoders. See page 7 here http://www.mpegla.com/main/programs/HEVC/Documents/HEVCweb.pdf http://www.mpegla.com/main/programs/HEVC/Documents/HEVCweb.p...
- espadrine 12y ago
  Then surely you have an issue, don't you, if you bundle the decoder in JS?
  - Daiz 12y ago
    Hmm, that does make me wonder, actually - as far as I know, you can freely distribute source code for encoders & decoders without having to pay any royalties. Binaries / compiled versions are where the royalties come in. And technically, JS code is source code that gets compiled by the browser... so I'm not actually sure where it falls in all this.
    - wmf 12y ago
      I don't think source code is exempt from patents per se. I think the rule is more like some point in the supply chain has to have a license. It's common to distribute a chip or software library with no license with the assumption that the final product will get a license. But if the source code is the final product it needs a license. IANAL.
- pgeorgi 12y ago
  Yes, the content - that means unlike h.264 licensing there's no separate license for streaming (page 7 of http://www.mpegla.com/main/programs/avc/Documents/avcweb.pdf http://www.mpegla.com/main/programs/avc/Documents/avcweb.pdf) But with h.264, _codec_ licensing is for non-commercial (and internal business) use only (page 8). There's no clear statement that HEVC licensing is for any and all purposes, and their use of the term "End user" in MPEG-LA's (non-binding) public material across patent pools is quite inconsistent, so it may mean only non-commercial users. Given that it's MPEG-LA that we're talking about here, and their history, I assume there will be nasty surprises unless there's hard evidence that there aren't.

higherpurpose 12y ago

"Most" is a huge overestimation. I don't think Haswell supports HEVC encoding. Qualcomm will only support it next year with the high-end Snapdragon 810, and Apple only recently supported it in the latest iOS devices. But the vast majority of people right now don't have support for HEVC encoding and won't have for 5+ years.