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Ok, let's follow that logic: The Pirate Bay should be banned because people can use it to steal/share intellectual property. Automobiles should be banned beca

by Vaskivo 12y ago

Ok, let's follow that logic: The Pirate Bay should be banned because people can use it to steal/share intellectual property. Automobiles should be banned because people can use it to run over people. Tor should be banned bacause people can use it share child pornography with it. Scissors should be banned because people running with them can get seriously hurt.

jkaunisv1 12y ago
Your logic ignores the reality of the situation. Not sure if trolling, but: People use TPB mainly to steal/share IP. People use cars mainly to get places efficiently, and occasionally by accident run people over. Nobody sets out to get hurt while running with scissors (well, maybe some episode of Jackass). Nobody except the very rare psychopath sets out to run people over in their car. Almost everybody who goes to TPB is looking to steal/share IP.
- dandelion_lover 12y ago
  Weapons (in general) are mostly used to kill and rarely to defend. Should they be totally prohibited?
  - jkaunisv1 12y ago
    Well...yea. I kinda think they should be. I wouldn't go as low as simple weapons like knives since they are mainly tools, but I don't see why the average citizen needs a gun. The only real case I accept for them is hunting, which you don't need a glock or assault rifle to do. And besides, we're not talking about weapons. We're talking about a website used to pirate content. I'm as logical as the next person here but people keep conflating these totally different issues on "logical" arguments. A complete, world-wide ban on weapons wouldn't work because then you're leaving a window for some actor to make new weapons and exert that power. Shutting down torrent sites does not decrease societal stability, open anyone up to threats on their life, etc. Stop pretending guns and torrents are similar issues.
coldtea 12y ago
You forgot the "is mostly used for that purpose" you yourself said above. If cars were "mostly used for that purpose (running over people), then hell yeah, we should ban then. And if "scissors" were mostly used by people running with them, then I guess we should ban them too.
- Vaskivo 12y ago
  This discussion is deeply entrenched in one's own world view and moral philosophy. I'll just explain myself: I am a moral absolutist. I believe only action can have moral value (good or evil). This moral value is intrinsic and independent of context, intent or consequences. Killing for vengeance, killing in self defence and killing to save thousands of lives are all evil. Because killing is evil. I also consider censoring, taking away and destroying something as bad. Everything in this world is unique, and was created either by natural means or by human hand. Even the most offensive and harmful thing should be considered as a product of this universe, and protected as such. This way, I cannot approve of any decision that, in order to prevent/eliminate evil actions, either a) performs evil actions or b) censors, takes away or destroys something. I say that TPB should not be banned or taken down. What should be addressed are the people who are using it to steal IP. What should be addressed are the people running over other people. What should be addressed are the people sharing child porn in Tor. In the end, in my personal philosophy, the ends don't justify the means. Ever. I know that in practical term, this is extremely naive. The world is painted in shades of gray. Sometimes we need to be practical when solving our problems. I'm just that hopefull bufoon that always tries to save the _Kobayashi Maru_ [1] [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobayashi_Maru https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobayashi_Maru
  - javert 12y ago
    > I am a moral absolutist. I believe only action can have moral value (good or evil). This moral value is intrinsic and independent of context, intent or consequences. Killing for vengeance, killing in self defence and killing to save thousands of lives are all evil. Because killing is evil. Why do you believe this?

by Vaskivo 12y ago

jkaunisv1 12y ago

Your logic ignores the reality of the situation. Not sure if trolling, but: People use TPB mainly to steal/share IP. People use cars mainly to get places efficiently, and occasionally by accident run people over. Nobody sets out to get hurt while running with scissors (well, maybe some episode of Jackass). Nobody except the very rare psychopath sets out to run people over in their car. Almost everybody who goes to TPB is looking to steal/share IP.

dandelion_lover 12y ago
Weapons (in general) are mostly used to kill and rarely to defend. Should they be totally prohibited?
- jkaunisv1 12y ago
  Well...yea. I kinda think they should be. I wouldn't go as low as simple weapons like knives since they are mainly tools, but I don't see why the average citizen needs a gun. The only real case I accept for them is hunting, which you don't need a glock or assault rifle to do. And besides, we're not talking about weapons. We're talking about a website used to pirate content. I'm as logical as the next person here but people keep conflating these totally different issues on "logical" arguments. A complete, world-wide ban on weapons wouldn't work because then you're leaving a window for some actor to make new weapons and exert that power. Shutting down torrent sites does not decrease societal stability, open anyone up to threats on their life, etc. Stop pretending guns and torrents are similar issues.

coldtea 12y ago

You forgot the "is mostly used for that purpose" you yourself said above. If cars were "mostly used for that purpose (running over people), then hell yeah, we should ban then. And if "scissors" were mostly used by people running with them, then I guess we should ban them too.

Vaskivo 12y ago
This discussion is deeply entrenched in one's own world view and moral philosophy. I'll just explain myself: I am a moral absolutist. I believe only action can have moral value (good or evil). This moral value is intrinsic and independent of context, intent or consequences. Killing for vengeance, killing in self defence and killing to save thousands of lives are all evil. Because killing is evil. I also consider censoring, taking away and destroying something as bad. Everything in this world is unique, and was created either by natural means or by human hand. Even the most offensive and harmful thing should be considered as a product of this universe, and protected as such. This way, I cannot approve of any decision that, in order to prevent/eliminate evil actions, either a) performs evil actions or b) censors, takes away or destroys something. I say that TPB should not be banned or taken down. What should be addressed are the people who are using it to steal IP. What should be addressed are the people running over other people. What should be addressed are the people sharing child porn in Tor. In the end, in my personal philosophy, the ends don't justify the means. Ever. I know that in practical term, this is extremely naive. The world is painted in shades of gray. Sometimes we need to be practical when solving our problems. I'm just that hopefull bufoon that always tries to save the _Kobayashi Maru_ [1] [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobayashi_Maru https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobayashi_Maru
- javert 12y ago
  > I am a moral absolutist. I believe only action can have moral value (good or evil). This moral value is intrinsic and independent of context, intent or consequences. Killing for vengeance, killing in self defence and killing to save thousands of lives are all evil. Because killing is evil. Why do you believe this?