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Have they been successful? They did risky things and pocketed the winnings themselves in good times, with the taxpayer paying the losses when everything came do

Have they been successful? They did risky things and pocketed the winnings themselves in good times, with the taxpayer paying the losses when everything came down. I am not saying banks are not needed, and I am not running around with a tinfoil hat, but saying that investment banks are 'working quite successfully' might be a bit of a stretch.

tomp 12y ago
Up until the most recent crisis, I would say yes. There are a few very old investment firms, e.g. Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, Morgan Stanley, that probably haven't required government help many times in the past. This time, it's different, pretty much every big bank required help, as did other big companies (e.g. auto manufacturers), so you can't really say that it was the money-driven people in banks that were the cause of this issue.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- slayed0 12y ago
  >...you can't really say that it was the money-driven people in banks that were the cause of this issue. Yes you absolutely can. /ot
- kilburn 12y ago
  >...you can't really say that it was the money-driven people in banks that were the cause of this issue. Yeah... > It was the money-driven people in general that were the cause of this issue. there, fixed it ;)
  - tomp 12y ago
    No, not at all. It was the handful of very greedy politicians that relaxed the laws that allowed this to happen; "ordinary" traders, quants and managers at big banks had essentially nothing to do with the direction in which the world was headed, they were only there for the execution.
    - kilburn 12y ago
      I strongly disagree. > It was the handful of very greedy politicians that relaxed the laws that allowed this to happen This breaks down for two reasons. First, politicians relaxed the laws because they were bribed into it by lobbies. That's at least two handfuls of money-driven people at play here. > "ordinary" traders, quants and managers at big banks had essentially nothing to do with the direction in which the world was headed, they were only there for the execution. That's people who convinced poor and poorly-educated people to buy houses they couldn't afford. They tampered the accounting books. They outright lied to get more sales, and so on and so forth. I don't know about you, but I would need to be extremely desperate (as in I can't feed my children) to resort to those tactics in exchange for money. These people were not in great need, and acted in that manner just because they are more money-driven than others who didn't (many of which lost their jobs because of it). So yes, I honestly think that it was the fault of money-driven people in general from the very top to the street seller.

tomp 12y ago

Up until the most recent crisis, I would say yes. There are a few very old investment firms, e.g. Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, Morgan Stanley, that probably haven't required government help many times in the past. This time, it's different, pretty much every big bank required help, as did other big companies (e.g. auto manufacturers), so you can't really say that it was the money-driven people in banks that were the cause of this issue.

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
slayed0 12y ago
>...you can't really say that it was the money-driven people in banks that were the cause of this issue. Yes you absolutely can. /ot
kilburn 12y ago
>...you can't really say that it was the money-driven people in banks that were the cause of this issue. Yeah... > It was the money-driven people in general that were the cause of this issue. there, fixed it ;)
- tomp 12y ago
  No, not at all. It was the handful of very greedy politicians that relaxed the laws that allowed this to happen; "ordinary" traders, quants and managers at big banks had essentially nothing to do with the direction in which the world was headed, they were only there for the execution.
  - kilburn 12y ago
    I strongly disagree. > It was the handful of very greedy politicians that relaxed the laws that allowed this to happen This breaks down for two reasons. First, politicians relaxed the laws because they were bribed into it by lobbies. That's at least two handfuls of money-driven people at play here. > "ordinary" traders, quants and managers at big banks had essentially nothing to do with the direction in which the world was headed, they were only there for the execution. That's people who convinced poor and poorly-educated people to buy houses they couldn't afford. They tampered the accounting books. They outright lied to get more sales, and so on and so forth. I don't know about you, but I would need to be extremely desperate (as in I can't feed my children) to resort to those tactics in exchange for money. These people were not in great need, and acted in that manner just because they are more money-driven than others who didn't (many of which lost their jobs because of it). So yes, I honestly think that it was the fault of money-driven people in general from the very top to the street seller.